Fear Of God

Sikh80 · 26-12-2007, 03:30 PM

suriq hovY piq aUgvY gurbcnI Bau Kwie ] (18-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
1.Intuitive understanding is obtained and one is welcomed with honor, through the Guru's Word, filled with the Fear of God.

Sikh80 · #21 (**permalink**) 26-12-2007, 09:22 PM

Many are Ruined without Fear OF Lord.

fwhpix qin suKu nhI ibnu fr ibxTI fwr ] (933-14, rwmklI dKxI, mÚ 1)
In jealousy, the body is not at peace; without the Fear of God, multitudes are ruined.

Sikh80 · #22 (**permalink**) 26-12-2007, 10:15 PM

Religion depends on intuitional power and demands belief whereas physical sciences depend on observations and experimentation. They require concrete demonstrable proofs. The
mystic simply believes that a Prime mover (God) is the final cause of all creation but the scientist does not accept the presence of a Prime mover and demands proof of its existence. Therefore the first clash between religion and science starts at the question of the Creator.

According to many modern scientists and agnostics there is no higher authority (God) creating, controlling and running the universe. They argue that matter is eternal. It has in-built selfsufficiency to evolve, dissolve and shape itself. On the other hand the mystics argue that if matter is eternal, how did the vast processes of motion and transformation begin which resulted in filling the vast universe with matter? How did matter develop thinking and evolve into mind?

Descartes said, “The essence of matter is expansion in space but the essence of mind is thought” (cited by Sir James Jeans in The mysterious universe P. 171). How and at what stage did matter change into mind is not known. Neither is it known as to how the expansion of matter started and when will it end?

“Mind no longer appears as an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we are beginning to suspect that we ought rather to hail it as the Creator and Governor of the realm of matter, not of course our individual minds, but the minds in which the atoms out of which our individual minds have grown exist as thoughts.”(Sir James Jeans The mysterious Universe p. 187)

Aristotle has written quite a lot on this subject. He writes, “If we are not to plunge drearily into an infinite regress putting back one problem step by step endlessly, we must posit a Prime Mover unmoved being, incorporeal, invisible, space-less, sexless, passionless, changeless, perfect and eternal (God) who is the final cause of nature.”(SVD p. 47)

Aristotle’s view is quite convincing. The extremely complex chemical and physical make up of living organisms is a very convincing testimony to a superior and perfect maker. Most
living organisms originate from a minute fertilized egg barely visible to the naked eye. The egg is as small as a pinprick and yet this insignificant pinprick contains immeasurable traits of new life for future regeneration. Remarkably incomprehensible, intricate, unbelievable and mysterious developments result in the womb producing functionally different organs of the body like eyes, ears, and the brain (with at least 10,000,000,000 cells in it). It is hard to believe that all this happens by itself without any planner. One wonders what protects the embryo from the surrounding harmful chemicals in an egg. What mechanism provides food for its growth until the chick develops into millions of complex living cells within a short span of time? Who provides vital oxygen to the chick in the egg or disposes of exhaled carbon dioxide? “There certainly is some ‘directive principle’ at work”(Science Today p. 25-26).

According to Sikhism ‘the directive principle’ is the Creator who created everything and infused His spirit in the living. organisms. The Guru says, “O, my body, the Lord infused His consciousness in you and only then did you appear on the earth”(AGGS p. 921). Since there is a design in everything we see in nature, there must also be a designer. The more complicated a design is, the more intelligent the designer. Sikhism believes that God is the designer whose creative designs are par excellence. As for providing sustenance and protection in the womb, the Guru says, “The Lord provided protection to you in the womb.” (AGGS p. 805) According to Sikhism God created the universe and he looks after everything.

Balbir Singh · #23 (**permalink**) 27-12-2007, 03:43 AM

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

Thanks for the wonderful Sabads from the true Gurus. The original words from Gurdev stimulate my memory of the results of Naam Simran.

The translations and vyaakhyas provided do not convince me.

At many occasions the reverend Gurus sing of love with God. May I ask how is it possible for a person to enliven love and fear together?

Balbir Singh

Sikh80 · #24 (**permalink**) 27-12-2007, 05:11 AM

Dear Balbir ji,

I shall try to answer you though the answer of it should lie with oneself.The love Of good ,devotion and the Fear Of God should go side by side. For a perfect devotion the three elements are necessarily to be present.
Fundamental Belief Of Sikhism
The fundamental belief of Sikhism is that God exists (One God). He is not as merely an idea or concept, but as a Real Entity. Although He is indicated to be indescribable and Formless (Niraguna or Transcendent aspect), yet knowable and perceivable (Saraguna or Eminent aspect) to anyone who is prepare to make the honest attempt to mend his corrupt ways by collecting his Mayaic mind scattered around in Bikaars (lust, anger, greed, attachment etc.) and thus make it become perceptive to God's Persona, Divine Qualities and All-pervasiveness. So for the SGGS, God does not need any logical proof for is Reality and Truth. Your question embraces the following four questions and these have been explained in the earlier posts.

What is the Fear of God?
Why We should Have the Fear of God?
Who is Filled With the Fear of God?
Benefits That Flow From the Fear of God
How is the Fear of God Produced Within?

t.b.contd.

Sikh80 · #25 (**permalink**) 27-12-2007, 05:12 AM

I am trying to put in brief ,may be it is helpful, though having a fear for something that may not be tangible[1that cannot be touched; incorporeal; impalpable ,ordesignating or of any of certain business assets, esp. goodwill, that have no material being but have monetary value or,that cannot be easily defined, formulated, or grasped; vague]yet intangible ,formless yet in all forms and all pervasive and permeating each and every one should itself give the feeling of someone beyond human comprehension and generatess the feeling of some one very big and worthy of respect as HE is the provider to all of us and is the Architect Of our Destiny. Without HIM we cannot exist as we exist for He wanted us and that is why we are even interacting. This should be a reason enough that we should have develop fear ofr such a wonderful and magnanimous personality.
1.
God's Fear does not mean to be afraid of God. It simply implies respect, Love, reverence, veneration or Adb for the Divine Law, Hukam etc.
2.
"Fear" (respect, reverence, Love or Adb) keeps a seeker in the scale of morality and righteousness, which, in turn, encourages Spiritual Life, Spiritual discipline, meditation, cultivation of Self-knowledge through inner inquiry and one-pointed conscious Love for God. With the help of these Divine Attributes, one adorns Bhgati (devotion) with its important element of Bairaag — detachment from materiality and temptations, and attachment to the practice of Love and devotion of the Pure Self (Joti-Svaroopa) within. According to the SGGS, only those deeds are "excellent" (good Karanee) that are done in the Fear of God (respect, reverence, Love or Adb), otherwise they are "false". Thus the third Guru Sahib says, "Forsake desire, and abide in the Fear of God; O Nanak, these are the most excellent actions".
3.
Although both the unfaithful (Bemukh, Saakat, the Manmukh or nonbeliever) and the faithful (the opposite of Bemukh or believer) entertain the Fear, but the Fear of both is something different. In separation from God, the Bemukh or Saakat is full of all other fears (e.g., fear of death, repeated suffering etc.). It's common to see such people subscribe to religion out of fear. They practice the various religious injunctions because of apprehension that nonperformance of the same will lead to retribution from God. Ignorance is the root of such fear. The basis of any religion is Love of God and hence anything done out of fear is due to immaturity. In True Love, how there can be any room for any kind of reprisal? The faithful, on the other hand, Fears the All -powerful God in deep reverence, respect, Love, Adb etc. So he has no other fears (such as the fear of death etc.) because he does not consider himself to be separate from God at any given moment

I am putting it as it is as there is nothing new that I have added.
t.b.contd.

Sikh80 · #26 (**permalink**) 27-12-2007, 05:25 AM

Spiritual value is associated not merely with Love and devotion of God but also linked to having the Fear of God (respect, reverence, Love, Adb etc.) and the practice of Dharma — the social responsibility of caring for the entire Creation. According to the SGGS, the true Love of God is the result of the Fear of God. In other words, in the absence of such Fear of God (respect, reverence, Love, Adb etc.), there can be no True Love of God. "This Fear of God adorns the Love of the Lord", states Baabaa Nanak in the SGGS. The SGGS further observes that without the Fear of God neither will one get inspiration for devotion (Bhagti) nor will one remember and Love Him and nor will one's sinful mind (stained with Bikaars or negative propensities) become Pure, an essential ingredient for God Realization. You see it's like a dominal effect. In nutshell, the Fear of God is an essential element in developing Prema-Bhagti (Loving Devotion). Furthermore, as indicated in the SGGS, Pure Awareness or Consciousness (God, Divine Creator etc.) alone is Fearless, but everything else functions in the Fear of God.

It shall not be within me to explain to you all that should come naturally from within.

Sikh80 · #27 (**permalink**) 27-12-2007, 05:28 AM

DIET AND SPIRITUALITY

Kindly go thru. the above as well.It shall be helpful.

Sikh80 · #28 (**permalink**) 27-12-2007, 05:31 AM

Primary beliefs and principles

One God: There is only one God, who has infinite qualities and names; She or he* is the same for all religions.
Re-incarnation, Karma & Salvation: All creatures have souls that pass to other bodies upon death until liberation is achieved.
Remember God: Love God, but have fear of her or him* as well.
"Humanhood" (Brotherhood/Sisterhood*): All human beings are equal. We are sons and daughters of Waheguru, the Almighty.
Uphold Moral Values: Defend, safeguard, and fight for the rights of all creatures, and in particular your fellow beings.
Personal Sacrifice: Be prepared to give your life for all supreme principles – see the life of Guru Teg Bahadur.
Many Paths lead to God: The Sikhs believe that Salvation can be obtained by non-Sikhs.
Positive Attitude to Life: “Chardi Kala” – Always have a positive, optimistic, buoyant view of life.
Disciplined Life: Upon baptism, Sikhs must wear the 5Ks, strictly recite the 5 prayers (Banis), etc.
No Special Worship Days: Sikhs do not believe that any particular day is holier than any other.
Conquer the 5 Thieves: It is every Sikh's duty to defeat these 5 thieves: pride, anger, greed, attachment, and lust.
Attack with 5 Weapons: Contentment, charity, kindness, positive attitude, humility

Sikh80 · #29 (**permalink**) 27-12-2007, 06:09 AM

Akath Kahani Prem Ki, Kutch Kahi Na Jaye
Goonge Keri Sarkara, Baithe Muskae
Akqa khanaI p`oma kI, kCu khI na jaaya
gaUMgao korI sarkra, baOzo mauskaya
TranslationInexpressible is the story of Love
It cannot be revealed by words
Like the dumb eating sweet-meat
Only smiles, the sweetness he cannot tell

[Kabir ji]

Balbir Singh · #30 (**permalink**) 27-12-2007, 07:26 AM

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

Thanks for your posts and the reference
"Akath Kahani Prem Ki, Kutch Kahi Na Jaye
Goonge Keri Sarkara, Baithe Muskae."

I cannot imagine someone smiling while experiencing love but in fear.
God is without fear. Why should HE inject His beloved ones with fear?
I have also not found any Vaak from Gurdev singing the coexistence of love and fear.

The first post of this thread is this.
suriq hovY piq aUgvY gur bcnI Bau Kwie ] (18-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Surati happens. Honor blossoms. Through the spoken Gur one consumes Bhao.

This is unimaginable that through Gur Bachanee fear fills one completely.

I feel the translation provided 'Intuitive understanding is obtained and one is welcomed with honor, through the Guru's Word, filled with the Fear of God' is not convincing.

Truth is that through the Gur speech one realizes the true Sabad.
Please listen. Guru Naanak Jee is singing.
gur bcnI scu sbid pCwqw ]
"gur bachanee sachu sabadi pachhaataa." SGGS Ang 154-6

Is Gurdev singing totally the opposite here? Please ponder.
hAu mnu qnu dyvAu kwit gurU kAu myrw BRmu BAu gur bcnI Bwgy ]
"ha-o manu tanu dayva-u kaati guroo ka-u mayraa bharamu bha-u gur bachnee bhaagay." SGGS 172-2

Balbir Singh