The guidance from Akali ji is awaited.

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

Sikh80: The answer to randip singhs question is this as per my understanding:

Bhagat bani which has been given gurgaddi should be called gurbani. There bani which is present in shri Guru Granth sahib ji is gurbani. Remember bani is a word that means spoken or said by first person of whoever the individual is and not the way we say in our daily lives or . In this case bhagat ji's bani outside of shri Guru Granth sahib ji can never be considered gurbani as guru sahib didnt give that authority of gurbani to the bani of bhagats outside of Guru Granth sahib ji.

We do not know why that the bani outside of Guru Granth sahib ji but however there was a reason as to why it was or wasn't. We can't come to that understanding because we do not need too. Gurbani is given us the ultimate path to reaching the stage of sach khand and being one with akaal purkh. If we come to say "oh why wasn't this bani of bhagats included", then what are we as individuals trying to say that guru sahib made a mistake that he didn't include it in gur shabad? No one would ever say that and we can't come to an understand as to why, The bani of bhagats which go in line with the sidhant of sikhi which guru nanak sahib created is included in shri Guru Granth sahib ji and the ones that are not, are not included it is very simple concept. So our ultimate guru is not the bhagat himself, or guru tegh bahadur only, or guru nanak dev ji only etc, our guru is all those bhagat's, mahapurkhs and guru's which have there bani in Guru Granth sahib which makes Guru Granth sahib ji as our ultimate guru which gives us the spirtual path.



I dont have much time right now so i will post some other time on the naam topic. Have been very busy

Regards

International Akali ji,
SSA
welcome to the forum bhai sahib.
Thanks for putting your view point on the bani of the Bahgats. You have very rightly put your view .Your reply is very illumininating and we shall interact more frequently when you are able to spend more time with us here.

I had replied Mr.Randip ji in the following manner[vide link=36]

[quote]
Bani of Granth sahib Maharaj ji contains the Bani of Nanaks/Gurus and the saints. The entire bani when clubbed under the head of 'SGGS ji' is called as ‘sabad –guru’. The ‘sabad guru’ thus includes the Bani of the saints [to the extent that is included in the Granth sahib ji] and Guru sahibs. The extent of bani of these saints that is included in Granth sahib ji also forms the part of ‘sabad-guru’ and is worthy of as much respect as is the other bani of Guru sahibaan.

I am no one [and so are you] to philosophize as to why only this much portion of the bani of saints is included in SGGS ji and why not the entire bani of the saints have been taken in ‘sabad- guru’ nor should I bother about that part of the Bani of the saints that is not included in the Granth sahib ji.It is also stated that I have fair supposition that all the saints whose bani is recorded in Granth sahib ji Maharaj were having a very high spiritual level that they had their dasam dwar opened. All Of the saints were said to be in communion with Almighty. They were Souls of higher level."[unquote ]

Your post is ,ofcourse, very nicely worded on account of your wider exposure to Bani. WE have to learn many things from you and shall be seeking guidance as and when you are available.

Warm Regards.
E&OE
[one can do without smilies unless there is a strong urge otherwise.]

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

International Akaali ji,
I also hope you find more time to speak on these subjects in the future. You teach in a very clear way.

Not to anyone individually, but just my personal reaction
How the bani were recorded in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is a matter of historical fact not a matter of philosophy. And that is that. The conversations of Guru Arjan Dev ji, Bhai Gurdas, the others were not recorded-- so we cannot know their thinking, their philosophy, or how the jyote of the Guru found its way to influence the final decision. And perhaps that is a good thing. Otherwise squabbling would never end.

The works of the baghats and sants that are not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib may be of high spiritual quality. So too may be some of the poetry of other Hindu and Buddhist spirits over centuries. There are those that speak of the Divine Consciousness and our relationship with Divine Consciousness in a way that is compatible with Sikhi. However, these works were not the Guru when Gobind Singh ji proclaimed where to find Guruji. They are works that lie outside of the Shabd Guru. Such sants, baghats, poets can lift us up, and we benefit when we read them. But they speak outside of the Shabd of the Guru.

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ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ man karehalaa gur govindh samaal O camel-like mind, dwell upon the Guru and the Lord of the Universe.

Akali ji your post on Naam is awaited.

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

Naam literally means, the Name. A fuller definition of the word can only be found within the SGGS itself. Naam is God’s Word, or the Divine Essence. Etymologically, the word has a striking resemblance with the Greek neumena or the Bright Essence as opposed to phenomena. Naam is not merely the ‘Name of God’ as is commonly believed; it symbolises the Being of God filling all Creation. Naam is also referred to as Shabad in the SGGS.
Where there was no creation, there was nothing in existence – no air, light, water, earth or space. God existed alone in deep meditation and self absorption. When God willed for the manifestations of his values, He created universes, worlds and all material and other living beings by uttering a single Word. His Word is all pervasive and the sole source of all Creation; the Word created the universes and supports and sustains all things within them. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib further enlightens us that God’s Word turned into waves of light, rays of which are present in all creatures and all other parts of His creation. This is consistent with a fundamental principle of physics that sound vibrations, when increased several fold, change into waves of light.
This Essence / Naam / Sabad / Logus is formless, colourless, and featureless but, as said, is present in all creation. There is no plant, no creature, in what it is not. The Earth and other heavenly bodies exist because there is Naam in this universe and when God withdraws this Naam from this Universe, there is natural calamities (Parloh / Mahaparloh) all over the universe and this is the time that the universe perishes and all the living creatures perish. Being so, the Essence can’t be seen or visualised by the mind. We can see only the physical dimension of Reality in God’s Creation – mountains, plants, trees, creatures etc. Thus the Outer Shell of Reality holds us (the appearances delude us) and we cannot penetrate deeper to experience the all pervading Reality. The physical dimensions of Reality (the outer shell) is always in flux; it keeps changing. While birth, death, creation, destruction etc. occur in the physical dimensions of creation, the Essence, being Sat (Sat-Naam) never changes, it transcends space and time.
We cannot focus our mind or attention on God, who is Absolute, the invisible Essence. The Naam (SHABAD), the Name of God is the only medium available to us for approaching Him. The Naam actually is a combination of 5 words (which actually are the name of 5 supernatural heavenly places which fall on the way when the soul is starting towards the SACHKHAND) which only a true Guru can give to its disciples. All who get Naam from the Guru have to concentrate at one point in their mind and recite the Naam in their mind without actually uttering it. When we recite Naam, our soul starts responding to it. It actually starts to shrink and starts moving towards the point in our body called the THIRD EYE.
When a person practices it for a very long time he/she reaches the SACHKHAND. Thus, it is through the Naam that we are able to think of Him, to remember Him. In other words, the Naam is God Himself, adopted to our limited powers of perception and thought, adopted to the capacities of our body and mind. Because we are endowed with the capacity to utter and attentively listen, the continuous recitation of and attentive listening to the Naam focuses our mind on the object of invocation, resulting in a ceaseless remembrance of God (DHYAAN). This Dhyaan, in turn, results in complete absorption of our consciousness on the thought of God, who responds to our earnest invocation and reveals Himself in our inner being.
The revelation of the Essence of Reality within us is the revelation of Naam. When the revelation of Naam occurs within, the devotee sees His the Essence of God pervading throughout His Creation. Gurus have taught that their teachings are for all the religion (varnas) and all have the right to get the teachings of the Gurus. To Initate our soul so that it starts towards the ultimate goal (SACHKHAND) a person has to repeatedly and continuously recite and remember the Naam, and to cherish it in the heart all the time – this is the essence of prayer and devotion to God.
In Gurbani, the word Gursabad or Shabad is synonymous with Naam. Without ceaseless recitation of Naam God cannot be realised.

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

We cannot focus our mind or attention on God, who is Absolute, the invisible Essence. The Naam (SHABAD), the Name of God is the only medium available to us for approaching Him. The Naam actually is a combination of 5 words (which actually are the name of 5 supernatural heavenly places which fall on the way when the soul is starting towards the SACHKHAND) which only a true Guru can give to its disciples. All who get Naam from the Guru have to concentrate at one point in their mind and recite the Naam in their mind without actually uttering it. When we recite Naam, our soul starts responding to it. It actually starts to shrink and starts moving towards the point in our body called the THIRD EYE.
When a person practices it for a very long time he/she reaches the SACHKHAND. Thus, it is through the Naam that we are able to think of Him, to remember Him. In other words, the Naam is God Himself, adopted to our limited powers of perception and thought, adopted to the capacities of our body and mind. Because we are endowed with the capacity to utter and attentively listen, the continuous recitation of and attentive listening to the Naam focuses our mind on the object of invocation, resulting in a ceaseless remembrance of God (DHYAAN). This Dhyaan, in turn, results in complete absorption of our consciousness on the thought of God, who responds to our earnest invocation and reveals Himself in our inner being.
The revelation of the Essence of Reality within us is the revelation of Naam. When the revelation of Naam occurs within, the devotee sees His the Essence of God pervading throughout His Creation. Gurus have taught that their teachings are for all the religion (varnas) and all have the right to get the teachings of the Gurus. To Initate our soul so that it starts towards the ultimate goal (SACHKHAND) a person has to repeatedly and continuously recite and remember the Naam, and to cherish it in the heart all the time – this is the essence of prayer and devotion to God.
In Gurbani, the word Gursabad or Shabad is synonymous with Naam. Without ceaseless recitation of Naam God cannot be realised.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satnam

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

According to Guru Nanak everything in the universe is created by the power of Divine Name (NAAM) and without the Divine Name there is no way (The Japji, Pauri 19). He explains that all the visible forms are held by the Divine Name; everything takes its rise from the Divine Name and is again absorbed in it. The Divine Name is the essence of the four Vedas and is the repository of the True Reality. The Divine Name is synonymous with the Divine Word or Sabad.
God is the Ultimate Reality which has innumerable Names assigned to Him and the Names are identical with His being. There is no difference between His Being and His Name. The Name, Form and the essential Nature of God are the same; there is no difference between them – all the three are conscious and sublime bliss by nature. Guru Nanak says –
Hearkening to the Name bestows
Truth, divine wisdom, contentment,
To bathe in the joy of the Name
Is to bathe in the holy places. The Japji, Pauri 10.
t.b.contd..............

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~

It is also held by Guru Nanak that God is anaam (Nameless), yet He is possessed of infinite names: "Numberless Thy Names and numberless Thy places" (The Japji, Pauri 19). His Names are in consonance with His Attributes which are infinite. His Name is Truth (Satnam). His Name is Formless (Nirakar). His Name is the Absolute Creator (Karta). His Name is the Immortal Being (Akal Purakh). In fact, Guru Nanak took all the historical attributive names of gods and goddesses for the One Absolute Reality from the Hindu as well as the Muhammadan names such as Vishnu, Brahma, Govinda, Gopal, Hari, Keshava, Krishna, Narayana, Parmeshwar, Rama, etc. from Hindu pantheon, and Muhammadan names like Allah, Haq, Karim, Khaliq, Khuda, Rahim, Rabb, etc. from Muslim Holy books. All these names stand for the same God. To these Names of God more Names have been added by the Sikh Gurus, such as, Piara, Pritam, Mitter, Sajjan, Satguru, Waheguru, etc..
t.b.cont

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~~~**Jap mun Satnaam sda Satnaam...sda satnaam sda satnaam.....~~~