Naam Japna

With due respect to Sikh 80, I wonder after hundreds of articles/books written on simran or Naam Jap, why still people have failed to understand it and practice it? People write lengthy articles without mentioning a few words Satguru used in various Shabad to make it clear what is the true meaning of simran and jap and how it is to put in practice. What we do, when we face a question, we start defending ourselves about what we wrote or thought. NaamJap jee has a point. In a short way let me qoute Satguru here in this context of simran and jap. Sri Raag Mehla 1... Naam slahi rang sio, Gur kai Shabad santokh 11 .... gurmatt tu slahna, hor keemt kehn n jaye 11 ... Gurmatt SACHA mann vassai Naam bhoolo patt saakh 11 ... in another context .. Jin ke chole rattre KANT tina ke paas.." All these words used by Satguru ji indicate for true love for WAHEGURU, in simple words to fall in love with WAHEGURU. Why have we fallen victims to the kinds of ritualisms Satguru advocated to abandon absolutely. Most of the words that convey major message of Gurmatt, Satguru Sahiban explained them in various shabad literally giving them a meaning. People study Gurbani and stat translating in English especially by word by word or sentence by sentence which trigger imbiguity and misinterpretations. Translation by Dr. Darshan Singh ji is another example of it. Yesterday.s Sardara 123 ji's Shabad translation of a shabad in Dhanasri Mehla 1 is very good example how meanings of Gurbani are taken odd to Gurmatt( Sardara 123 ji might have got it from some where , no offense, forgive me, the meanings are crippled) Same case is here, Naam Simran, many people are not able to utilize simran and jap beyond a ritual. Why? Because we, when interpret do not take Gurbani in its totality. I recommend Dr Sahib Singh's interpretation, it does match very well with Gurumatt if not perfect. Do you want to enjoy jap? Do you want to enjoy simran? Fall in love with ALMIGHTY without any duality at all because between situation will mitigate the effect. In HIS Rabg ratte are in jaap/simran state of mind always.
Again sorry if I contradict!

HAR bisrat sda khuari


Source:
http://www.sikhlionz.com/naam.htm[/quote]

 
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pk70 Ji,

Can you provide 'TO THE POINT TRANSLATIONS IN ENGLISH' Please.

I only know a few sources, and that was the closest I could find.

Waheguru knows, my intention is to share 'GURU SHABD', not the translations or by any means -my intellect.

Very sorry for causing any trouble, it happens many times, but there are many members who can't read Gurmukhi at all, so one has to depend on English Translations, what ever available. I always check for the things like- statements not in line with Gurbani etc. But I know that a translation is not Guru's Words, on top of that it is a totaly different language, so the syntax cant match. But if you can find one more closer, that will be the best thing for those who only read the translations.

I will really appreciate, if you can provide correct or at least the closest Enlgish Tarjma.

Thanks.

[/quote]

Yes, Sir, you may be cent-percent correct in your observations. It is our good luck that you have pointed out something that is lacking. I am just posting that is already authored and widely accepted. A small write up on that you have suggested would be welcome.We all do as per our intellect.

But we all appreciate the contribution of seniors who can guide us. It would be our previlege to pause for a moment and wait for a instructive post from you.



With Regards to all.

Sat Sree AKAAL Sardara 123 Ji

First of all let me thank you from the bottom of my heart for your all efforts you do to share Guru message with other fellows; doubtless it is praiseworthy because you are sharing NAAM Gyaan just for the sake of love for NAAM unlike others who write and sell NAAM to make money, there is a long list of such people. Here is what Satguru says who sell Naam instead of enlightening people" dhrig tinah ka jeev jo likh likh veche NAON 11 Kheti jina kee ujjre, khalvare kia thaon ( Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 1245)

I strongly believe that no one can translate Gurbani as per the message Sathuru conveyed through it, so I suggest people to keep total message of Gurmatt in mind while translating . Beautifully it was kept through Guru Granth Sahib by Guru Sahibaan.
If we want to share with people who can hardly understand Panjabi/Gurmukhi, read the complete Shabad, find out the message and avoid translating word by word or sentence by sentence. Here is a few examples from Dr Darshan Singh's translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji whom I have a lot of respect but bluders are regretfull. On first page, waak of Satguru" soche soch n hovaee je soche lakh vaar11" Here is his translation" worrying brings no result even if one worries lacs of times"
"soch" word has nothing to do with the worry in this context.
next In Sree Rag Mehla 1 Ghar 4 ..... ek suaan duye suaani naal 11 bhalke bhonke sda beeaal 11 koorh shura mutha murdaa11
Here is the translation " There is one dog two ******* with it. Tomorrow ever they bark in the direction of wind. False food is a dagger that robs the ill getting" What is Dr Darshan Singh is trying here to translate these Guru waak, translating words? But words Satguru used are sybolic stating mental convictions of the minds which are subject of Satguru's message. A foreigner will learn what from this translation? This translation is infested with such blunders. That is the other reason I humbly request people that if you just want to make money look for another field, leave Gurbani to devotees, they can handle it but do not cripple the message of Gurmatt. I applaud you for your sincere efforts and recommend you to study Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ibterpretted by Dr Sahib Singh completely, I call it very well match with the message Satguru if not perfect. Also I praise you for a big heart to learn more instead of defending yourself. We all learn from each others, as you do, I do, we are defined by Gurmatt as learners( SIKHS).
As you asked here is a close translation of that Shabad by me. I suggest you to read translation by Principal Teja Singh, Talib sahib in english, they are better than the rest.

PK 70
HAR BISRAT SDA KHUAARI

Dhansri Mehalla 1 Ghar 1 Chuopde

There is only one God, His existence is a reality. He is the only Creator without fear or animosity. He is beyond death or birth. By himself He is luminous. Can be realized through blessings of Guru
I am scarred being in this world filled with miseries from in who I should take refuge. When The Immortal giver of all is forgotten, misery follows.(1) My Master, I know, is always there to help me and while helping he acts as if I had prayed for his help first time,( in other words He never gets tired of this good deed.)(1 Pause) Everyday the Master should be in mind because He is the only one who can liberate all. O my friend, by listening to the praise of my Master leads to the successful liberation.(2)O Kind One, with your love I will pass through the world of miseries I always sacrifice to you(1 Pause).
Belonging to all only He is the one, none other, but only those get tuned to Him who He blesses (3). My dear, how can I live without you? No, I can’t. Please bless me with that kind of honour that can keep me in love with you. I am certain there’s no one other equal to you that I should go and pray.(1 Pause) I shall serve my Master only and shall not ask any thing from any other one. Satguru says (Nanak says) I am His low servant and sacrifice myself to him all the time. My Master!I sacrifice to you all the time.
PS Forgive me if something is overlooked

pk70

Now I have read two comments you have written. Both stopped me dead because you have gone to the heart of this matter of translations. The translator has to look at the whole of the Guru to capture the meaning of His shabad at its heart.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/18394-naam-japna.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=18394

Not just matching one word to another, but capturing the big message. It cannot be easy because languages don't co-operate in advance. Guruji has been speaking for centuries and only in a blink of time has there been a desire by English speakers to hear Guruji's message, a message which is much more than the sum total of His vocabulary. Please tell us how we can find translations by Principal Teja Singh.

I agree with what you said in another post about Sant Khalsa Singh. Flaws are not flaws when one is traveling to the center of the heart.

And so you did notice Sardara123's big heart -- all of his people have big hearts. So must you have a big heart too as you could see this in someone else.

Calmness of mind or Sahej comes by continuous recitation on the Divine Name.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=18394

PK 70 Ji,

Thanks for replying. Thanks to Waheguru Ji for all, It is all Guru Ji's Bessing, I am doing nothing.
I have read Prof Sahib Singh Ji as well as Bhai Veer Singh Ji, and still go back to them sometimes, even post Bhai Sahib Singh Ji's Translations sometimes. I am surely searching for a more detailed English Translation, which can provide a good explanation of the 'Word'.

As you advised, please guide, Where can I find Principal Teja Singh Ji's or Talib Ji's English Translations? I will look into it.

I totally understand what you saying, it happens many many times. If it is in my hands, I will make every body sit and learn Gurmukhi, whoever want to read Gurbani . Let us be positive, We need to keep on working on this and do the best possible with Guru Ji's Grace.

Thanks again PK 70 Ji.

Sat Sree AKAAL Sardara 123 jio

I am glad I could be of any service, my mission is just to aware my Gursikh fellows who are devoted to Sikh-cause( like S Aman Singh millions thanks for opening up this site where all we can share and learn from each other) that a lot of distortion of Gurbani and Sikhism is being donewhile so called schoolars write or do a search on Gurbani. Persons like you, Sikh 80. naamjap, ambardhara and especially aad002 who emmensely showed interest in my postings,deserve to be appluaded for devotion towards it. Go to Library, (Gurdawara 34 my have)
Look for Japji Sahib by Pr. Teja Singh and Translation of Guru Granth Sahib ji by Gurbachan Singh ji Talib. Not perfect but they tried to keep Guru message in translation . Avoid non Sikh writers or those who just write to make money. People who use pompous language are just there to put their own show. People whose work must be avoided to give importance are many but I can mention a few, like Osho(fabricates story to avoid the point), Khushwant Singh( does his work on hearsay) or a group settled outside India( under enfluence of missioneries). Go to Sikhspectrum.com, read Dr Baldev Singh who truely advocates Gurmat and takes any one who try to distort. Sorry to say, I may disagree with Him on some points too with due respect but I cannot help applauding his approach towards Gurbani (the best one), Doctor Sahib has no ax to grind either.
Thanks again

Pk70
HAR bisrat sda khuari

Sat Sree Akaal aad002
Thanks for paying paying attension towards some of my critism of distortion done by some and agreeing to it, we Sikhs need people like you to continue speaking against these things. My mission is that all good persons like you should stand against it and contribute(as you are doing) positively.Here on this site, Yes ,all have good hearts including you. Principal Teja Singh translated not very much but like Japji translation is available, go to library, like University, if you are in Mohali, may be Library of Gurdwara 34 have. Gurbachan Singh Talib did translate Guru Granth Sahib ji He will be available too in the library. If you comprehend Gurbani properly, you can find distortion and go with your own attempt of coorecting it. It will be my pleasure to discuss any thing with you and other Sikh fellows.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=18394
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=18394
Forgive me II missed any answer.
Waheguru bless you with more knowledge in this context.

Pk70
Har bisrat sda khuaari