Understanding Gurbani

Sikh80 · #11 (**permalink**) 18-12-2007, 08:08 PM

Dear Archived_member2 ji,
Your first post was nice.
The second is confusing the issue as my comments and your comments have got mixed up. Yes, it is in SGGS ji that we get the knowledge that one's life is wasted without Naam.
Further wahguru is naam , it is the way I have conceptualised.
Please give your answer independently not in the form of line by line analysis.

Surinder Kaur Cheema · #12 (**permalink**) 18-12-2007, 08:08 PM

FORGIVE ME Archived_member2 JI (for the interruption from me neech)

Your words :

Quote:

"Did Gurdev ever confirm that SGGS is the giver of the giver of the Naam of Lord"

"God is ONE. Please experience ONE in anyONE. The word 'or' vanishes then"

in contrast to all the rest of your post my question to you is:

HOW COME 'GURDEV' IS DIFFERENT THAN DHAN DHAN SGGS JI, AND NEED A CONFIRMATION TO BE __________??????????

humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness

Sikh80 · #13 (**permalink**) 18-12-2007, 08:29 PM

I think For sikhs it is true that only SGGS ji or The GOD Himself can be the Guru.

1. SGGS ji is 'sabad guru' and contains bani that is treated as Nirankaar[ bani Nirankaar Hey] Hence 'Sabad guru' is also Nirankaar.
2.In nutshell LOrd HImself is the Guru.

Sikh80 · #14 (**permalink**) 19-12-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archived_member2

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and Sikh80 Jee!

Quote "Yes, it is in SGGS ji that we get the knowledge that one's life is wasted without Naam."
This is truth, but why some translators are saying that one can purchase true Naam?

Quote "Further wahguru is naam , it is the way I have conceptualised."
Gurdev never said that 'Waheguru' was Naam. Please provide one reference if someone has found it different.

Quote "Please give your answer independently not in the form of line by line analysis."
The true Guru provides One Naam. Everything else becomes clear.
Strange, many go on reading line after line and ask what is Naam.

This is another translation of the wonderful Vaaks from Gurdev available on Internet.

gurmuiK vsqu vyswhIAY scu vKru scu rwis ] (18-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Through the Guru, purchase the Divine commodity. The True merchandise is bought with the true Capital.

ijnI scu vxMijAw gur pUry swbwis ] (18-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)
Hail ! unto those, who, through the Perfect Guru, have pruchased the True Name.

I want to ask what kind of bargaining is in progress between the buyer and the seller that a transaction still has not taken place.

**************

Quote from Surinder Jee "HOW COME 'GURDEV' IS DIFFERENT THAN DHAN DHAN SGGS JI, AND NEED A CONFIRMATION TO BE __________??????????"
The true Gurus wrote Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee so that everybody can confirm the same truth experiencing true Naam Simran and progressing with it at consciousness.
This is but not possible when someone is engaged in activities that Gurdev never wrote and suggested.
Did the true Gurus ever write that their writings are Satgur?

Please listen. Gurdev is singing.

ibnu siqgur hir nwmu n lBeI lK kotI krm kmwau ]2]
"bin satgur hari naam na labha-ee lakh kotee karam kamaa-o. ||2|| " SGGS Ang 40-15

Strange, many possess the Guru's Writings and feel that they are owning Satgur, engaging them in koti karam around it.

The True Guru and His Words are Truth and the Same.

**************

Quote from Sikh80 Jee "SGGS ji is 'sabad guru' and contains bani that is treated as Nirankaar[ bani Nirankaar Hey] Hence 'Sabad guru' is also Nirankaar."
Have I understood it correctly? SGGS Jee is 'Sabad Guru'. 'Sabad Guru' is nirankaar. So SGGS Jee is Nirankaar.
Nirankaar means without any form or shape (akaar). SGGS Jee but has a form and shape too.

Archived_member2

I have not gone thru. your line by line analysis that does not make sense to me. But 'Nirankaar' is not 'Niraakar' with which you seem to be confused.These are two separate words. It Is 'Niraakar' that means without form.

inr;karu

nirankaar

The Formless One, God

Pl. correct the translation given by you. Your post is not very relevant. I am happy without any further clarification as I have ,in the meantime , referred to the meaning in Sahib singh ji. I also observe that the tone of your post does not speak well of Guru sahibs. May be I am wrong.

Sikh80 · #15 (**permalink**) 19-12-2007, 09:02 AM

It is better to spend time oneself and arrive at the meaning. It is of no use to post the doubts for clarifications.

Sikh80 · #16 (**permalink**) 19-12-2007, 02:35 PM

ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਭਏ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ ॥
सबदु बीचारि भए निरंकारी ॥
Sabaḏ bīcẖār bẖaė nirankārī.
Contemplating the Shabad, we become Nirankaari - we come to belong to the Formless Lord God.

[ Nirankaar refers to Formless god- Yes Granth sahib ji has a form. But it is Nirankaar, the formless god.]
Kindly do not play mental tricks.]

Sikh80 · #17 (**permalink**) 19-12-2007, 02:37 PM

I am posting the entire shabad for the benefit of all.

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
रामकली महला १ ॥
Rāmkalī mehlā 1.
Raamkalee, First Mehl:
ਖਟੁ ਮਟੁ ਦੇਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥
खटु मटु देही मनु बैरागी ॥
Kẖat mat ḏėhī man bairāgī.
Above the six chakras of the body dwells the detached mind.
ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਧੁਨਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਜਾਗੀ ॥
सुरति सबदु धुनि अंतरि जागी ॥
Suraṯ sabaḏ ḏẖun anṯar jāgī.
Awareness of the vibration of the Word of the Shabad has been awakened deep within.
ਵਾਜੈ ਅਨਹਦੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਲੀਣਾ ॥
वाजै अनहदु मेरा मनु लीणा ॥
vājai anhaḏ mėrā man līṇā.
The unstruck melody of the sound current resonates and resounds within; my mind is attuned to it.
ਗੁਰ ਬਚਨੀ ਸਚਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਪਤੀਣਾ ॥੧॥
गुर बचनी सचि नामि पतीणा ॥१॥
Gur bacẖnī sacẖ nām paṯīṇā. ||1||
Through the Guru's Teachings, my faith is confirmed in the True Name. ||1||
ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਰਾਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
प्राणी राम भगति सुखु पाईऐ ॥
Parāṇī rām bẖagaṯ sukẖ pāīai.
O mortal, through devotion to the Lord, peace is obtained.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਗੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुरमुखि हरि हरि मीठा लागै हरि हरि नामि समाईऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gurmukẖ har har mīṯẖā lāgai har har nām samāīai. ||1|| rahāo.
The Lord, Har, Har, seems sweet to the Gurmukh, who merges in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||Pause||
ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਬਿਵਰਜਿ ਸਮਾਏ ॥
माइआ मोहु बिवरजि समाए ॥
Māiā moh bivaraj samāė.
Eradicating attachment to Maya, one merges into the Lord.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ॥
सतिगुरु भेटै मेलि मिलाए ॥
Saṯgur bẖėtai mėl milāė.
Meeting with the True Guru, we unite in His Union.
ਨਾਮੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮੋਲਕੁ ਹੀਰਾ ॥
नामु रतनु निरमोलकु हीरा ॥
Nām raṯan nirmolak hīrā.
The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is a priceless jewel, a diamond.
ਤਿਤੁ ਰਾਤਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਧੀਰਾ ॥੨॥
तितु राता मेरा मनु धीरा ॥२॥
Ŧiṯ rāṯā mėrā man ḏẖīrā. ||2||
Attuned to it, the mind is comforted and encouraged. ||2||
ਹਉਮੈ ਮਮਤਾ ਰੋਗੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ॥
हउमै ममता रोगु न लागै ॥
Haumai mamṯā rog na lāgai.
The diseases of egotism and possessiveness do not afflict
ਰਾਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਮ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਭਾਗੈ ॥
राम भगति जम का भउ भागै ॥
Rām bẖagaṯ jam kā bẖao bẖāgai.
one who worships the Lord. Fear of the Messenger of Death runs away.
ਜਮੁ ਜੰਦਾਰੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ਮੋਹਿ ॥
जमु जंदारु न लागै मोहि ॥
Jam janḏār na lāgai mohi.
The Messenger of Death, the enemy of the soul, does not touch me at all.
ਨਿਰਮਲ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਹਿ ॥੩॥
निरमल नामु रिदै हरि सोहि ॥३॥
Nirmal nām riḏai har sohi. ||3||
The Immaculate Name of the Lord illuminates my heart. ||3||
ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਭਏ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੀ ॥
सबदु बीचारि भए निरंकारी ॥
Sabaḏ bīcẖār bẖaė nirankārī.
Contemplating the Shabad, we become Nirankaari - we come to belong to the Formless Lord God.
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਜਾਗੇ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਪਰਹਾਰੀ ॥
गुरमति जागे दुरमति परहारी ॥
Gurmaṯ jāgė ḏurmaṯ parhārī.
Awakening to the Guru's Teachings, evil-mindedness is taken away.
ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗਿ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ॥
अनदिनु जागि रहे लिव लाई ॥
Anḏin jāg rahė liv lāī.
Remaining awake and aware night and day, lovingly focused on the Lord,
ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਗਤਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੪॥
जीवन मुकति गति अंतरि पाई ॥४॥
Jīvan mukaṯ gaṯ anṯar pāī. ||4||
one becomes Jivan Mukta - liberated while yet alive. He finds this state deep within himself. ||4||
ਅਲਿਪਤ ਗੁਫਾ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਹਿ ਨਿਰਾਰੇ ॥
अलिपत गुफा महि रहहि निरारे ॥
Alipaṯ gufā meh raheh nirārė.
In the secluded cave, I remain unattached.
ਤਸਕਰ ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ॥
तसकर पंच सबदि संघारे ॥
Ŧaskar pancẖ sabaḏ sangẖārė.
With the Word of the Shabad, I have killed the five thieves.
ਪਰ ਘਰ ਜਾਇ ਨ ਮਨੁ ਡੋਲਾਏ ॥
पर घर जाइ न मनु डोलाए ॥
Par gẖar jāė na man dolāė.
My mind does not waver or go to the home of any other.
ਸਹਜ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਰਹਉ ਸਮਾਏ ॥੫॥
सहज निरंतरि रहउ समाए ॥५॥
Sahj niranṯar rahao samāė. ||5||
I remain intuitively absorbed deep within. ||5||
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਗਿ ਰਹੇ ਅਉਧੂਤਾ ॥
गुरमुखि जागि रहे अउधूता ॥
Gurmukẖ jāg rahė auḏẖūṯā.
As Gurmukh, I remain awake and aware, unattached.
ਸਦ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਤਤੁ ਪਰੋਤਾ ॥
सद बैरागी ततु परोता ॥
Saḏ bairāgī ṯaṯ paroṯā.
Forever detached, I am woven into the essence of reality.
ਜਗੁ ਸੂਤਾ ਮਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥
जगु सूता मरि आवै जाइ ॥
Jag sūṯā mar āvai jāė.
The world is asleep; it dies, and comes and goes in reincarnation.
ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਨ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਇ ॥੬॥
बिनु गुर सबद न सोझी पाइ ॥६॥
Bin gur sabaḏ na sojẖī pāė. ||6||
Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, it does not understand. ||6||
ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਜੈ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ॥
अनहद सबदु वजै दिनु राती ॥
Anhaḏ sabaḏ vajai ḏin rāṯī.
The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates day and night.
ਅਵਿਗਤ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਤੀ ॥
अविगत की गति गुरमुखि जाती ॥
Avigaṯ kī gaṯ gurmukẖ jāṯī.
The Gurmukh knows the state of the eternal, unchanging Lord God.
ਤਉ ਜਾਨੀ ਜਾ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥
तउ जानी जा सबदि पछानी ॥
Ŧao jānī jā sabaḏ pacẖẖānī.
When someone realizes the Shabad, then he truly knows.
ਏਕੋ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਨਿਰਬਾਨੀ ॥੭॥
एको रवि रहिआ निरबानी ॥७॥
Ėko rav rahiā nirbānī. ||7||
The One Lord is permeating and pervading everywhere in Nirvaanaa. ||7||
ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਤਾ ॥
सुंन समाधि सहजि मनु राता ॥
Sunn samāḏẖ sahj man rāṯā.
My mind is intuitively absorbed in the state of deepest Samaadhi;
ਤਜਿ ਹਉ ਲੋਭਾ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਤਾ ॥
तजि हउ लोभा एको जाता ॥
Ŧaj hao lobẖā ėko jāṯā.
renouncing egotism and greed, I have come to know the One Lord.
ਗੁਰ ਚੇਲੇ ਅਪਨਾ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥
गुर चेले अपना मनु मानिआ ॥
Gur cẖėlė apnā man māniā.
When the disciple's mind accepts the Guru,
ਨਾਨਕ ਦੂਜਾ ਮੇਟਿ ਸਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੮॥੩॥
नानक दूजा मेटि समानिआ ॥८॥३॥
Nānak ḏūjā mėt samāniā. ||8||3||
O Nanak, duality is eradicated, and he merges in the Lord. ||8||3||

Surinder Kaur Cheema · #18 (**permalink**) 19-12-2007, 04:11 PM

Thanks a lot for your comments Veer Archived_member2 Ji,

but question still remained unanswered, let me clarify my humble questions once again:

WHY DO YOU CONSIDER GURDEV, SGGS, NIRANKAAR, SATGURU -ALL SEPERATE????? ARE THEY DIFFERENT?????????

WHY DO YOU NEED CONFIRMATION FOR SSGS TO BE A GIVER OF NAAM AS THE GIVER OF NAAM IS 'GHAT GHAT ANTAR TU HAI VUTHTHAAAAAA' WHAT CONFIRMATION YOU ARE LOOKING FOR____????

as considering GURDEV as GURDEV and His Bani NON GURDEV is very strange for a spritually advanced individual as you are claiming to be per your such statements: (your words) "God is ONE. Please experience ONE in anyONE. The word 'or' vanishes then"

If 'OR' is vanished then Isn't God and Guru and Nirankaar ARE ALL ONE and only one and present in anyone AND in EVERY ANSH OF THE UNIVERSE as Dhan Dhan Gurdev Sache Patshah is SINGING:

jo jo deesay tera roop.....................................

humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness

Surinder Kaur Cheema · #19 (**permalink**) 19-12-2007, 06:55 PM

Veer Archived_member2 Ji asked:

Quote:

Did the true Gurus ever write that their writings are Satgur?

YES BANI IS GURU, BANI IS SACH, BANI AND SATGURU ARE THE SAME ONE

and i hope that Veer Archived_member2 Ji at least this truth is confirmed to you THAT GURBANI IS GURU'S BACHAN, GURBANI IS BANI, GURBANI IS GURU/SATGURU DI AGYA/HUKAM/ORDER, GURBANI IS GURU'S WRITING. AND this is also confirmed to you that THERE IS NO DISTINCTION between GURU and SATGURU, i humbly hope.............

and Dhan Dhan Guru Sahibaan Jee added other bhagat Bani in there as well, most important thing to consider, ALL IS ONE AND ONLY ONE no duality at all in any form possible

AND Guru Sahib is SINGING VEER MERE:
BANI GURU GURU HAI BANI

try listening with love and humility............

.....
what other CONFIRMATION one has to look for !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I humbly request you Veer to listen to Honarable Gurubachan:
1.

iekw bwxI ieku guru ieko sbdu vIcwir ]

Translation : There is One Bani; there is One Guru; there is one Shabad to contemplate.

so there is no distinction ALL IS ONE.

2.

bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ]

Translation: The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. Bani and Guru are treated as same 'ONE'.

3.

scw siqguru swcI ijsu bwxI Bij CUtih gur srxweI ]

Translation : True is the True Guru, and True is the Word of His Bani; in the Guru's Sanctuary, one is saved. GURU and GURBANI same ONE ULTIMATE TRUTH

4.
gurbwxI iesu jg mih cwnxu krim vsY min Awey ]1]

Translation: Gurbani is the Light to illuminate this world; by His Grace, it comes to abide within the mind.

5.

qyry bcn AnUp Apwr sMqn AwDwr bwxI bIcwrIAY jIau ]
Translation: Your Word is Incomparable and Infinite. I contemplate the Word of Your Bani, the Support of the Saints.

6.
AMqir bwhir qyrI bwxI ]
The Word of Your Bani is inside and outside as well..

quDu Awip kQI qY Awip vKwxI ]
You Yourself chant it, and You Yourself speak it.
guir kihAw sBu eyko eyko Avru n koeI hoiegw jIau ]3]
The Guru has said that He is One-All is the One. There shall never be any other. ||3||

7.Bgiq BMfwr gurbwxI lwl ]
Gurbani is the jewel, the treasure of devotion.
gwvq sunq kmwvq inhwl ]2]
Singing, hearing and acting upon it, one is enraptured.

and many more GURUBACHAN are endlessly confirmimg that "Bani is SatGuru", NO DOUBTS remain............................... UNLESS ONE THINK AND BELIEVE THAT GURBANI IS NOT GURUBACHAN

Tere Bachan Anoop Apaar Santan Adhaar Bani Beechaareeay Jeo.........
Bani Nirankaar Hai............
Gurmukh Bani Brahm Hai............

Another one to contemplate on:

AMg 669

DnwsrI mhlw 4 ]

syvk isK pUjx siB Awvih siB gwvih hir hir aUqm bwnI ]

gwivAw suixAw iqn kw hir Qwie pwvY ijn siqgur kI AwigAw siq siq kir mwnI ]1]

bolhu BweI hir kIriq hir Bvjl qIriQ ]

hir dir iqn kI aUqm bwq hY sMqhu hir kQw ijn jnhu jwnI ] rhwau ]

Awpy guru cylw hY Awpy Awpy hir pRBu coj ivfwnI ]

jn nwnk Awip imlwey soeI hir imlsI Avr sB iqAwig Ehw hir BwnI ]2]5]11]

humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness