Eh Janam Tumhare Lekhe

pk70 · #31 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsgrewal48895

I replied it and you never answered my question about the incomplete Sabd of Guru Arjan in Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page 927.
Virinder

Respected VSGREWAL JI

Why I didn't answer? Very simple, I told you to obey Guru's Hukam on rituals instead of looking for more than two lines.
There could be just two lines and he never thought of adding to it.
How Bano-Bir carries authentic Shabad? you rely totally on Bano as per Harbans Singh, I dont because for me when Guru criticize rituals, there is no way the rituals were performed in Guru house. If they were, people would not stay with Guru because there were Dheermal and others shops were ready to take them. True Guru does what he practices. I am not going to accept Bano compared to Guru's own Shabadas against rituals period. I am sticking to Guru what he wrote about rituals not Bano and his so called Shabad.

Regards
G Singh

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #32 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2009, 07:53 AM

What I cant fathom....honestly i just dont get it...is..

ALL the "twisting..turning..etc etc types of accusations: leveled repeatedly against anyone who doesnt agree with ones own abstract/translation version. To me that looks like Denial in real terms..living in ones own world...just too much..it may be 21st century in the West's most developed First World country......but still in a cocoon.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar-project/24068-eh-janam-tumhare-lekhe.html
Just post mail..even mildly "different"..and the accusation is instant..twisted..turned..misinterpreted..
Surely we can give each other some space....no one is an "expert"...no one is " a cut above the rest..no one is way below...no one is "fully Keshadharee" (meaning FULLY and 110% folliwing the IDEAL KHALSA") and no one is "fully clean shaven" either (meaning absolutley 110% clean inside of all the 5 thieves influences).
I have many disagreements..but I try and never accuse any of trying to twist..turn etc.. I am NOT GOD..so how do i know who is twisting and turning...imho too much hyper sensitivity to seemingly "denial modes"..doesnt help at all. Can we really claim we can Read the minds of others ???
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24068

I Have ALL the SEVEN Teekas..translations in Hard Copy...and they do DIFFER a huge lot from each other...BUT what i FAILED TO read in any of the Translations is an ACCUSATION by any one author...So and so has twisted..he has turned..he is in Denial. he is living in the past...he has this and he has that...that is a TRUE ACADEMIC Standard we shoull all try and follow. As Antonia Ji has so aptly put..one can lead a horse to water..but not make it drink. NO one has the "Statistics"..so whats the big deal...
Sorry and apologies if i have said too much or hurt any one's feelings...i never intended to...just learning..unlearning..and relearning...a Life time experience !!

Narayanjot Kaur · #33 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2009, 08:00 AM

Gyani ji

This is very true,

I Have ALL the SEVEN Teekas..translations in Hard Copy...and they do DIFFER a huge lot from each other...BUT what i FAILED TO read in any of the Translations is an ACCUSATION by any one author..

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #34 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pk70

Respected VSGREWAL JI

Why I didn't answer? Very simple, I told you to obey Guru's Hukam on rituals instead of looking for more than two lines.
There could be just two lines and he never thought of adding to it.
How Bano-Bir carries authentic Shabad? you rely totally on Bano as per Harbans Singh, I dont because for me when Guru criticize rituals, there is no way the rituals were performed in Guru house. If they were, people would not stay with Guru because there were Dheermal and others shops were ready to take them. True Guru does what he practices. I am not going to accept Bano compared to Guru's own Shabadas against rituals period. I am sticking to Guru what he wrote about rituals not Bano and his so called Shabad.

Regards
G Singh

IF GURU NANAK JI could DROP the Janeau...in an instant..and in full view of all the gathered family members, pandit ji and patwanteh sajjan who were there for the ceremony and would be deeply offended.. (even the Bakra had been slaughtered and the food was ready !!) and REFUSED to wear it...I dont see any logic in the reasoning behind the "GURU HARGOBIND Ji/GURUARJUN JI" failing to STOP RITUAL in their family. Absolutley preposterous accusation. By the time of Guru Arjun Ji..Sikhi was definitely more stronger than when Guru nanak ji was a mere child . The Banno theory doesnt hold water at all...not for me. Avar updeseh aap na kareh is NOT GURU JI...the Same Guru ji who could die on the Hot Plate defending his principles...

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #35 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aad0002

It would be interesting to take one shabad translated into English by Bhai Manmohan Singh, Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa, and Gurbachan Singh, and even Professor Sahib Singh (but we are limited to Japji Sahib if we include him). Then see how the translations deviate in terms of their meaning, and where they are the same in terms of their meaning. Next, try to understand why the understanding (not the English) may be different. Then try to work out why there is a different English wording.

And not to forget..each of the authors "wears" different "spectacles".
Some like those who authored the Fareedkotee Teka are wearing "SAFFRON Coloured spectacles"...so deeply steeped in Vedanta/Hinduism.Puranas, Udasis. Nirmalas. seva panthi traditions....just the word "6 chheh" and they immediately jump to SIX SHASTARS...for them there could be no other reason for "Chehh"..
The others are also simialrly affected by their background, environment, etc etc
There is a Punjabi saying..Saun de annaeh nu harra hee hara disdah hai...anone who became BLIND in Spring...sees " everything in GREEN"...because thats the last colour he saw !!
There is an ongoing similar "translation Project" goin on on another Forum..but that chief transaltor has a fixation with the Devil/Demon/Angels/HELL/HEAVEN.. etc as he was brought up in the Western education system and Bible environment...so he is busy looking for "Devils and Demons" in GURBANI with a fine toothed comb !!and he is "finding" it !!!! plenty of Devils and demons and hells and heavens..shows how twists and turns do happen after all...one can "see" what one wants in the mirror..Mirror mirror on the Wall...who is the best translator of them all ?? !!! not a joke.

This is a realy Massive ( Capital M ) Project...only a well established Academic/Spiritual/ well mixed group can manage a well balanced translation acceptable to all...Prof Sahib Singh is a "almost Perfect" start..Thank God for that.

Narayanjot Kaur · #36 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2009, 08:40 AM

Gyani ji

That is what I was trying to say, but treading softly because I am no expert. They wear different spectacles. I am still trying to figure out which color of spectacles is worn by the author of my NitNem.

I have started a thread in Gurmat Vichaar for comparisons of translations. Tranlations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj: The Difficult and the Contradictory.

Narayanjot Kaur · #37 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2009, 08:59 AM

Gyani ji

This is a little bit of a deviation but what do you know of the Prithpal Singh translation which is described as a revision of the translation of Bhai Manmohan Singh. What was revised? Did SGPC approve it?