Why does Caste still Persist with Sikhs?

Akasha · #10 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishna

I had no idea different styles had any meaning other than personal taste. Next you're gonna tell me the colours mean something too! (except navy blue and saffron, I figured that one out

)

Can someone provide a picture of a Ramgharia-style turban please?

Thanks

I believe the one in this vid is that style... though someone pls correct me if I am wrong... It's the one with the point at the top front.

How To Tie A Turban - YouTube

Kanwaljit Singh · #11 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 11:19 AM

Turban is to cover out Kesh. And with the firmness we tie our turban, that firmness we show in our devotion to Sikhi. Each turn of turban on our head comes with Simran. Calling a turban Ramgariah style is an insult. It is like making a house of cards and then blowing them away

Luckysingh · #12 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 13:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akasha

I believe the one in this vid is that style... though someone pls correct me if I am wrong... It's the one with the point at the top front.

As far as I know that is what they refer to by the label they give it.

Kanwaljit ji is right to say that we shouldn't differentiate between turbans and label them as such. But, the sad fact is that these are the references that are used and there is nothing wrong with being aware of what these people that label them, actually refer to.

There are appropriate threads on turban and it's significance and we should avoid going into that same discussion on here.

Kanwaljit Singh · #13 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 13:57 PM

Yes but a timely reminder helps

that all is given by and belongs to Guru. Before we think of any label to our Turban, Kirpan, Kara etc. we should think of Guru. That is the way of reaching Ik Surt (One Understanding!?).

harry haller · #14 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 14:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanwaljit Singh

Yes but a timely reminder helps

that all is given by and belongs to Guru. Before we think of any label to our Turban, Kirpan, Kara etc. we should think of Guru. That is the way of reaching Ik Surt (One Understanding!?).

Its not often I disagree with you, but I do here Kanwaljitji.

Everything is given by the Guru, our food, the air we breathe, the argument you are running is, in my view, serving only to put down those that choose to individualise the K's. And why should they not? I have seen a Sikh with a turban so high, I swear there were little mountain climbers clinging to its north face. His Kara was a huge affair, long big beard, I am just glad I could not see his Khacha!

The road your argument is going down creates barriers, walls, who is to say whose turban is tied correctly, whose Khacha confirms, whose kara is too big, these seem like petty divisive arguments, next you will be advocating a single style or colour, so that the more religious can patrol the streets looking for those that do not confirm, maybe we could ask the Taliban for advice?

Rory · #15 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 21:43 PM

Hearing about things like this really makes me sad. When I first starting reading about Sikhi it seemed like a dream come true, a wonderful system of love, equality and spiritual awareness without the frills. I am sort of disappointed in a way because the impression I got from everything I read about Sikhism is that it was "the short path" to awareness and obedience to God.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/38861-why-does-caste-still-persist-sikhs.html

I know it's not completely fair to judge a book by it's cover, and it's not really fair for me to judge Sikhi by Sikhs, but really how much do the followers say about their belief? I've started to get the impression that the majority of Sikhs are very confused about their religion and beliefs, maybe even preaching one thing while they know another is true. I'm not saying Sikhi is not "the short path", because it seems to me that if someone does stick rigidly to the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib that they can actually be the kind of person I thought all Sikhs were, but I still wish I had realized sooner that Sikhs generally are more concerned about the implications of their culture than they are about what the Gurus actually taught.

I thought that the whole point of dastaar was to show that everyone was equal? That Guru Nanak-ji initiated wearing turbans because at the time, only rich men, kings and emperors wore turbans; Guru Nanak-ji encouraging all his Sikhs to wear turbans and diminish the status of "turban-wearers" was to imply that no matter how grandiose one looked on the outside, we were all still the same? How can this sentiment be lost so easily upon people? Is it that most Sikhs do not even think about what they are wearing on their head? Guru Nanak taught that there is no use in a false ritual, why wear dastaar without understanding it? Sikhs have pictures in their houses and in Gurudwara of their beloved Guru Nanak-ji, why don't they actually give a listen to what he taught for a change?

Sorry if it sounds like I am attacking anyone, I'm just quite frustrated and let-down by these kinds of "cultural" trends holding back teachings which, if applied properly, could really make the world a better place. It's such a waste.

harry haller · #16 (**permalink**) 01-Aug-2012, 21:50 PM

Roryji

Well done and well said mundahugkudihug

Harvir007 · #17 (**permalink**) 02-Aug-2012, 02:13 AM

It's rather humorous to see how the caste system engulfs the ego of some Sikhs. It's somewhat ironic as Sikhi preaches against ego and calls it a vice. The caste system is just as futile as giving humans a label as to what race they are. Attempts may be made to eradicate this nonsense, however I believe it is an ever-ending struggle as ego seems to take precedence over the word of bani in most cases. Not all however! It's just a shame that not many people stand up to the utter mockery this caste system presents in the face of the teachings of Guru Nanak. When I say stand up, I mean people having inter-caste marriages and also genuine intellectuals that will vocalise their views on this most trivial of matters.

Akasha · #18 (**permalink**) 02-Aug-2012, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvir007

It's rather humorous to see how the caste system engulfs the ego of some Sikhs. It's somewhat ironic as Sikhi preaches against ego and calls it a vice. The caste system is just as futile as giving humans a label as to what race they are. Attempts may be made to eradicate this nonsense, however I believe it is an ever-ending struggle as ego seems to take precedence over the word of bani in most cases. Not all however! It's just a shame that not many people stand up to the utter mockery this caste system presents in the face of the teachings of Guru Nanak. When I say stand up, I mean people having inter-caste marriages and also genuine intellectuals that will vocalise their views on this most trivial of matters.

Personally having grown up in western society, I have no concept of caste at all... and to me, everyone is equal. I don't even notice someone's ethnicity (I say ethnicity vs race because there is only ONE race: HUMAN) I am friends with everyone, and care about everyone. Case in point, I am as pasty white as anyone could be, and I am seriously meeting a dark skinned Punjabi Sikh guy soon in person (even though we are long distance) with intentions to see if we are compatible... to me he has an amazing personality and that's all that matters. The more I talk to him the more I want to know him... I could care less what background he came from. So I can't even begin to grasp the concept of caste... it's all very weird to me!