Akhand Paath in languages other than the original

Randip Singh · #19 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 19:30 PM

I'd just like to remind everyone that Gurmukhi and the Granth Sahib was put together in the common tongue understood by the common man because Sanskrit was not understood or read by common people.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/38801-akhand-paath-languages-other-than-original.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801

Now if Gurmukhi is not understood by the common man, it makes me think maybe the SGPC need to get the best braisntogether to do a King James version of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jiji.
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Taranjeet singh · #20 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 20:07 PM

Isna ji,
You leave us like bums. I have no answer to that you have mentioned. I also appreciate that Randip ji has stated in his post.It would be a Herculean Task to translate the entire Gurbani. Even if we succeed we may not have the flavour of all that is in Bani. I have some observations and that I share.

While unconditionally agreeing with what my brothers have stated above, I would reiterate that IMHO……

One should always be open to new ideas and should not have hermetically sealed minds for the purpose of evolution and growth of religion and its spirit. It is only with openness and understanding of present days limitations imposed on individuals that an imprisoned religion, if I may call it so, can get its right place in society. It is the way to make an appeal to occidental mind to make a comparative study of the religion as well that has been labeled as ‘modified -Brahamanism’ or ‘Vedantic’ in nature and carries whole pantheon of Hindu’s or its mythology. I shall give the quotes as to who has stated in these terms in a new thread.

It is also one of the methods of sending the Guru’s message to those who are not aware of it. Gradual awareness is also part and parcel of giving wings to the religion that our society needs.In India sikhi is treated as part of Hinduism only. Sikh is, constitutionally speaking, a Hindu.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801

All this should change when more people embrace it and it is possible by increased awareness. Paath done in English, I am sure, shall bring in curiosity in the minds of those who are witness to it. They may like to know as to what is happening. It is how we can increase the awareness level. It is just a thought that I considered appropriate to share . In a way it is ‘Panthic sewa’.

There is no faux pas involved in this even though there may be some snag that can easily be overlooked by the society looking into the needs of religion that is so sacred and yet simple but needs popularity. It is one of the ways to make the religion more popular and make a dent in the western thinking and make one be aware of sikhi and Sikhism in positive manner.

Of course, there is no positive assertion of idea in SRM, but there is no positive negation of the idea in SRM as well. It gives us ample of room to do all that we want to do our devotion that is an essential ingredient of Sikhism. We all evolve and develop and change with time. To change is to live especially when there is no willful infringement of Maryada. My conclusions may be wrong, I am just trying to give justification to myself only, though I am encouraged by that Learned Gyani ji has stated about Rehat Maryada. Randip ji has indirectly emphasized that Paath be carried out in Punjabi. It sounds logical and correct.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801

I think the over all requirement is dedication and love of Lord that matters. He understands all the languages and cannot be supposed to be only of an idealists God. He is kind and merciful. He forgives His devotees. He also very well understand as to who is in devotion without any hypocrisy. All that we seek while doing Paath is to seek his grace. Let the language not become a barrier to meet this end. He knows, in my humble opinion, the language of our hearts that, we all know is LOVE.

In my humble opinion, changes that advance the religion should be embraced with love and all that constitute shackles should be abandoned else we run the risk of continue to live in closed society as we are living.

The ‘positives’ of doing Paath in English may far outweigh the small snags, if it can be called so and that I doubt.

Let our God have a smell of fresh air of west that freely roams over the ocean of song - ‘the holy word’ that originated from Him.

God is Nirlep, totally detached from us, though He is present in every heart. Guru Sahib are also forgiving in nature and shall forgive us if our intentions are to be judged.

I shall never hesitate or give a second thought if I were in some western country and had the choice of selecting the language. I could have considered as a means to make people aware that there is a religion so beautiful whose beauty can be experienced by those who are blessed ones. Instead of calling it ‘Akhand Paath’ one may call it ‘English Translation of Bani ‘on continued basis or something else if someone is so sensitive about the terms with which we have some fix that is wired into our brains so rigidly that we find ourselves helpless.

I am sure that it would happen one day- the earlier the better; personal thoughts only to be treated as subordinate to all that has been stated by other members. I shall be very unhappy if some feels offended. My sincerest apologies in advance.

Oh ‘Word’, the wondrous unstuck melody
Roam around freely over the ocean of ‘Song’
We seek thee!
Merge us in thee
To which we all belong! Taranjeet

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #21 (**permalink**) 19-Jul-2012, 21:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishna

Can I ask why, please?

My entire POST is about WHY ?? Please re-read...

Kanwaljit Singh · #22 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2012, 02:34 AM

Quote:

No one is suggesting to alter the Gurbani. But is there really that much power in sounds without understanding that reading translations is akin to making curd without milk?

Did any Guruji endorse the practice of akhand paath, or was this behaviour introduced later?

Akhand Paath was started when the Swaroops of Guru Granth Sahib were limited and they went from town to town, so there will be Akhand Paaths so that people could listen to Gurbani in shortest time (non stop renditions).

Now consider Rehat. Like you have to read Japuji Sahib in the morning. Would you be OK with reading just the translation and not the Gurbani? Similarly I wonder if we can consider the whole volume of Guru Granth Sahib translations as Guru? No we cannot. We would not bow to that. The notion of Paath is incomplete without Gurbani. Translation will enhance your understanding.

Quote:

Thanks for the video but it doesn't actually teach anything in the way of learning the actual Gurbani. There are plenty of resources for the newbie like myself to learn to read Gurmukhi and do paath. But there are scant resources that explain the actual meaning of the words and language.

I understand for you the tougher part is the pigeon hole problem, making sure all translations fit the original word.

Quote:

Something simple like 'ki' instead of 'da' - I've only just figured that out in the last couple of months. Call me slow but without any kind of guide you've got to muddle along until you go 'hmm, I guess ki is da for some reason'.

Ishna ji, see here you are ahead of me, I am still researching the use of 'ki' and 'da' in Gurbani and don't have a concrete hypothesis on it. Maybe you can start a new topic with your understandings.

Quote:

It is also one of the methods of sending the Guru’s message to those who are not aware of it. Gradual awareness is also part and parcel of giving wings to the religion that our society needs.In India sikhi is treated as part of Hinduism only. Sikh is, constitutionally speaking, a Hindu.

Therein lies the problem. Being a Hindu means living without rules. Pray to anyone. Have a fast on any day. Choose your Gods. Choose your scripture. What is in Sikhi is defined. Akaal Purakh. Guru Granth Sahib. No fasts no ritual worships, no pilgrimages etc. Just because it says in the constitution, Sikhs are not Hindus.

Quote:

I think the over all requirement is dedication and love of Lord that matters. He understands all the languages and cannot be supposed to be only of an idealists God. He is kind and merciful. He forgives His devotees. He also very well understand as to who is in devotion without any hypocrisy. All that we seek while doing Paath is to seek his grace. Let the language not become a barrier to meet this end. He knows, in my humble opinion, the language of our hearts that, we all know is LOVE.

What is Gurbani to us? Just some nice thoughts written in Gurmukhi language? No. I am not caring about the Gurmukhi. I am not concerned about what language it is written in. Gurbani is our Living Guru. Each word, matra, sound etc. is a creation of our Gurus. When I read from Gurmukhi Gutka, I see everyday, the hard work our Gurus had put in, their beautiful art, it is in a way reliving the history 300 years ago all over again. I don't want to let go of that feeling.

Scarlet Pimpernel · #23 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2012, 02:35 AM

Quote:

My entire POST is about WHY ?? Please re-read

This shows exactly the problem with reading, you can only take from it what you see, and not always fully what the writer intends,
Isi the original language is Truth ,it will always translate into Truth ,read it in any language it will ring true , breathe it in for your language is aquired too,read it as if in the womb you had not learned a language, think on it without thinking in your language.

Kanwaljit Singh · #24 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2012, 02:37 AM

English and other Latin languages were around at the time Gurbani was written. Our Gurus were well travelled and probably aware of them. Still they chose Gurmukhi was they found it was the best script to unify all the Baani under one Framework. Remember, Gurbani from other 'languages' were not chosen to support many languages. The primary reason was that they were spiritually relevant.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801

See this award winning documentary on Gurmukhi http://www.sikhnet.com/video/35

Chaan Pardesi · #25 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2012, 04:24 AM

11111111111111

Chaan Pardesi · #26 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2012, 04:36 AM

I have just gone through briefly.NO bhog or akhand path can be done through translated Granth sahibs; as the current Sikh law stands.The translated versions are only for learning and understanding the message of Gurbani through other languages.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801

They are NOT GURU granth sahibs, for a very simple reason.They lack the special messsage in a unique language ....੧(ੳ¬ !

One cannot write or put the ੧(ੳ¬ in any other language in the unique manner Guru Nanak ji gave it to us/ world!It will mean nothing in French; or tamil or Chinese.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38801

This cannot be translated into any other language for the simple reason as described!

We can write in as Eko'n kar!But that is not the same as ੧(ੳ¬ , which is very unique and peculiar to only the Gurmukhi language.

Ishna · #27 (**permalink**) 20-Jul-2012, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh

My entire POST is about WHY ?? Please re-read...

Perhaps I'm not reading it right, but your post talks about akhand paath ritual being useless and ends saying a rendition in any other language is even more useless than that. I would ask, how is it even more useless?

(edit)- perhaps Gyaniji is saying which is more broken, the shattered cup or the shattered mug.