
16-Dec-2011, 11:13 AM
|  | ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār | | | Enrolled: Dec 21st, 2010
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| | | | | Re: Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishna This is probably off topic but what's the difference between:
iii. The Guru Granth Sahib
iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus
Are there any utterances or teachings of our ten Guru Sahiban which are authentic and not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? | Ishna Bhain why you always ask the most difficult questions! Historic accounts as you perhaps know are not as well kept say compared to other religions like Christianity, Islam, etc., but it goes without saying that Guru jis teachings went beyond poetry. Now how much they wanted us to depend upon those is again a more difficult question.
An air tight answer should come from one scholarly, which I am not. There are Sakhis but I cannot vouch as I am not a scholar. There are letters like Zafarnama and artifacts, how such relate to your question I am not sure of.
Perhaps not too helpful but some sharing without digging in deep.
Sat Sri Akal.
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Last edited by Ambarsaria; 16-Dec-2011 at 11:24 AM.
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16-Dec-2011, 11:24 AM
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| | | | | Re: Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambarsaria Inderjeet Kaur ji just a bit of look at Sikhism in numbers.
Sikh Population 30,000,000
Any human being who faithfully believes in
i. One Immortal Being, 90% 27,000,000
ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib 81% 24,300,000
iii. The Guru Granth Sahib, 73% 21,870,000
iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and 15% 4,374,000
v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe
allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh 1.5% 437,400
I see very dangerous numbers based on the five tenants. About 1.5% (1/2 million) of total 30 million perhaps fully meet the five tenants.
I used successive application of how many flow through from i ---> ii --> iii --> iv --> v
Very gross approximation. Very problematic!
Given the present thread happy bashing, it appears we are further excluding. Are we working towards inclusion or exclusion!
For me anyone who even talked to a Sikh is part Sikh, who saw a Sikh is part Sikh, Who was born into a SIkh family is part of a Sikh, and so on. My list includes a lot than excludes or finds faults who are not there yet!
Sat Sri Akal. | Ambarsaria ji,
The criteria for being a Sikh is merely a faithful belief in these things. Hence, especially for v.) I think your numbers are way too low. Most non-Amritdhari Sikhs do believe in Amrit Sanchar even if they haven't actually partaken of it for whatever reason.
I do not find fault with those who "are not there yet." It's a long, long road and I imagine no two of us is at exactly the same place. The important thing is that we are headed in the same direction.
It is nice to think that a bit of my Sikhiness rubs off on everybody I come in contact with.
Sat sri akaal! | | The following members appreciate Inderjeet Kaur Ji for the above message. | | 
16-Dec-2011, 11:32 AM
|  | ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār | | | Enrolled: Dec 21st, 2010
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| | | | | Re: Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Inderjeet Kaur Ambarsaria ji, The criteria for being a Sikh is merely a faithful belief in these things. Hence, especially for v.) I think your numbers are way too low. Most non-Amritdhari Sikhs do believe in Amrit Sanchar even if they haven't actually partaken of it for whatever reason. | Inderjeet Kaur Bhain ji, now with that liberal definition (see underlined above from your post), my numbers of course make no sense. Unfortunately with my approach of inclusiveness, I should not dispute your liberal expansion. However I do!
Belief is not simply lip service, it is actions or deeds. Otherwise SRM will become just another note to self, believe all in SRM, do deeds or live as you like. I am in violation in actions/living and I know that I need to improve. This thread indirectly defines Sikhism, a bunch of ever learning Sikhs. The thread starter claims to be a Christianity believer. Starts the thread and leaves and here we are learning about things three pages later. I like this part of Sikhism to be the most wonderful gift of our founders. Closed minds rot! I would love to hear your thoughts or clarification.
Sat Sri Akal.
Last edited by Ambarsaria; 16-Dec-2011 at 11:39 AM.
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16-Dec-2011, 11:51 AM
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| | | | | Re: Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Inderjeet Kaur It is nice to think that a bit of my Sikhiness rubs off on everybody I come in contact with. Sat sri akaal! | I think this is one beautiful part of life people fail to recognize. It is living re-incarnation, one being alive in parts in other and other in us. Not just of people but life and non-life like steps in sand too. The butterfly effect where philosophically or otherwise it is posed that a butterfly flutter may be the source of a Hurricane that shows up in America. Sounds much like one everywhere doesn't it! Sorry slightly off-topic.
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16-Dec-2011, 12:40 PM
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| | | | | Re: Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambarsaria Inderjeet Kaur Bhain ji, now with that liberal definition (see underlined above from your post), my numbers of course make no sense. Unfortunately with my approach of inclusiveness, I should not dispute your liberal expansion. However I do!
Belief is not simply lip service, it is actions or deeds. Otherwise SRM will become just another note to self, believe all in SRM, do deeds or live as you like. I am in violation in actions/living and I know that I need to improve. This thread indirectly defines Sikhism, a bunch of ever learning Sikhs. The thread starter claims to be a Christianity believer. Starts the thread and leaves and here we are learning about things three pages later. I like this part of Sikhism to be the most wonderful gift of our founders. Closed minds rot! I would love to hear your thoughts or clarification.
Sat Sri Akal. | Ambarsaria ji,
First, The word "liberal" has never been paired with my name in Sikh matters before, to my knowledge. I am usually called things like fundamentalist and extremist. I am happy that you can see that my heart is not so narrowed-minded as some seem to believe.
Second, this is not my definition. It is a c/p from the SRM. I do not like this definition. I do not like much of the SRM. However, most mainstream Sikhs, myself included, accept it as the Law of the Land. There are other maryadas, notably among nihangs and I believe Damdami Takhsal follows the Gurmat Reht Maryada.
You say that belief encompasses action. That is one interpretation. There are others. For many, maybe most who call themselves Sikhs " SRM [is] just another note to self, believe all in SRM, do deeds or live as you like." This is one of the short-comings of the SRM. Still, as I said before, we are stuck with it for now.
I think there is a difference between a sikh (a learner) and a Sikh (an adherent of Sikhi). Of course a Sikh most always remain a sikh, otherwise what's the point. I thoroughly enjoy the freedom of thought that our GuruSahibans has given us.
I strongly believe we need to move away from Punjabi culture and become a worldwide religion. Our suffering planet needs what we have and we have no right to garb it in a culture unknown and often repugnant to non-Punjabis. In any case, the way we are killing our girls, if we don't have Sikhs who do not follow the Punjabi culture, we cannot last much longer. | 
16-Dec-2011, 17:15 PM
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| | | | | Re: Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ? Inderjeet ji
You said Quote: |
...and I believe Damdami Takhsal follows the Gurmat Reht Maryada
| Are you saying the Damdami Rehat Maryada carries the title of 'Gurmat Rehat Maryada', or are you saying it is more 'Gurmat' than the 'Sikh Rehat Maryada'?
Apologies for my ignorance.
I've read the SRM many times and I've read sections of the Damdami RM (it's much longer than the SRM...), and my money is with the SRM, personally. If I wanted a mammoth rule book I'd become a Muslimah.
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16-Dec-2011, 17:37 PM
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| | | | | Re: Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishna Inderjeet ji
You said
Are you saying the Damdami Rehat Maryada carries the title of 'Gurmat Rehat Maryada', or are you saying it is more 'Gurmat' than the 'Sikh Rehat Maryada'?
Apologies for my ignorance.
I've read the SRM many times and I've read sections of the Damdami RM (it's much longer than the SRM...), and my money is with the SRM, personally. If I wanted a mammoth rule book I'd become a Muslimah.
Gurfateh. | THEY call it Gurmat Rehat Maryada, not me. And I'm with you. I believe it violates the spirit of freedom that the Gurus Sahiban gave us and makes Sikhi a cumbersome burden instead a way of chard kala. Just my opinion.
If I wanted or needed all those rules, I'd become a Jew or a Muslim or a fundamentalist Christian. For all its faults, the SRM is easy to understand and brief and focuses more on the spirit of Sikhi instead of just the rules. I've always had this problem with authority, but even I recognize the necessity of having some rules. | | The following members appreciate Inderjeet Kaur Ji for the above message. | | 
16-Dec-2011, 17:42 PM
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| | | | | Re: Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ?  That's what I thought you meant bheinji, just thought I'd check!  You and me on the same page. | | The following members appreciate Ishna Ji for the above message. | | 
16-Dec-2011, 23:03 PM
|  | | | | Enrolled: Jan 27th, 2008 Location: Northwwest London Age: 55
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| | | | | Re: Can a person of any race or skin color convert to Sikhism ? Can any become a Sikh
Six foot 350 pound white skined red bearded ex-alcoholic Irishman here and Sikh for 25 plus years and Ireland and the Irish not a race and country one thinks of for Sikhs but yes if your heart and commitment is in Sikhi then go for it, It's probably the best decision this Irishman made | | The following members appreciate Joginder Singh Foley Ji for the above message. | | 
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