Is There A God?

Sinister ji,
How about a belief that you are Elvis? That may be brought on by the desire to become a better musician. It may even give you the confidence to become a better musician, hence serving a purpose. But it isn't true, and unsound.

I agree that belief plays a large role in our development and behaviour. But isn't it better to acquire more true beliefs and less false beliefs?

Of course not everyone is like that but the existence of those who are not like that justifies the existence of those who are. get it? Ill let Sam Harris explain.

 
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The intellect of the mind is like a drunken elephant. Whatever one utters is totally false, the most false of the false. - Guru Nanak, 351

It's most definatly a personal experiance for me and for those who follow my religion ( theistic Satanism) We belive that Satan see's us all as individuals and works with us on that principle. So while we share some similer experiances most of the time they are complety diffrent.

Dear Everyone,

I truly appreciate everyone's input into this discussion. What I wanted to accomplish was to get a glimpse of different people's thought process when asked why they believe in god. Of course, the answers I got from Sikhs were quite different than christians, mormons, b'hai's, etc. But that was to be expected, as Sikh philosophy is, I hope everyone agrees, not very similar to christian philosophy, which you can sum up in a sentence.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/29504-is-there-a-god.html

It is clear that questions like "what is truth?", "what is belief?", and questions about our weaknesses (like our perceptions, emotions, etc.) are difficult to tackle. It even makes me wonder, what is proof? What is true evidence? How do we know that something is proven? Some things are easy to prove - for example that apples come in different colors, but some things are hard - like what happens after you die? My only guess to that question is that it is the same thing that happened before you were born.

Vegangoth, I appreciate your answer that it is a personal experience, and I must admit my own ignorance as I have never heard of your religion (I have heard of theism and Satanism, but I had not heard of theistic Satanism). From the name, I am guessing that followers of your religion believe Satan = God. Is that correct? I would be interested in hearing more about it (my goal is to have a better understanding of as many religions as possible).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

BhagatSingh Ji, I appreciate your reponse too. Are you interpeting those shabads literally? I agree that the Guru Granth Sahib is very poetic and has metaphors, my question to you is how do you decide when to intepret something literally vs metaphorically? Generally speaking, I was raised to think that it's mostly literal (god actually answers the cries and prayers of all, though it's obvious that he doesn't have a physical throne that he sits on).

Well,

This thread started off as irreligious by asking a question in the title ‘is there a god?’. Then it somehow evolves into a discussion and critique of religion because nobody seems genuinely committed in discussing philosophical strategies that help discern the variety of the 'naturally' constructed realities. Nobody seems to be asking the right questions; why does god exist or how god could exist? Or what is the nature of existence?

Now, it has come down to the posting of Sam Harris videos from youtube that have little if any ting to do with the discussion of god/philosophy but simply social religion.

What I argue is simple, skeptics will use words like ‘soundness’ to discuss against god but do a 180 turn and argue rather vigorously for the soundness of the belief in such things as time and material reality… or the soundness of the belief that the space-time continuum can be bent in order to explain something like gravity. Why does their skepticism stop?…lack of knowledge. If you ask me, the belief in materiality and such theories that cannot be comprehended, is just another ‘quantum leap’ of creating a model to understand outcomes (identical to a model of god).

Words like ‘spaghetti monster’ and ‘Elvis’ are floated but simply add up to nothing more than an expression of a primal urge (just like the word god), because if anyone truthfully and honestly believed the scientific proven notion that all matter and time exist as the result of a probability…those questions would not be asked with such a profoundly emotional underpinning or conviction.

So i would say to Mr. Harris (I dare not call him a DR.), ‘Skeptics’ just like the ‘Religious’ are an emotional bunch and show strikingly similar insecurities and urges when they express their beliefs of reality.

Our minds cannot comprehend quantum superposition, quantum leaps, (basically reality) but such things are not only observed but also considered scientific truths. Because how is it physically possible to observe a particle and then deduce that not only could it be in multiple places but IS in all these places at once until observed?

Uncertainty (for the pessimist) and Probability (for the optimist) are the only truths. For the pantheist then, god is a probability and can be argued for or against with equal legitimacy, depending upon a persons taste…but the only way to discuss god is to first acknowledge that our understood reality is nothing more than a probability otherwise disagreement is inevitable and nothing but a waste of time (which a material skeptic would argue exists).

the simple observation, that the subject of god, can effect the emotional state of a man should be enough proof of existence.

what is existence?

sorry but you are wrong. we have already discussed this. Satnam translates to god is truth..not god's name is true...
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ਸਚ ਖੰਡਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥
Sacẖ kẖand vasai nirankār. Kar kar vėkẖai naḏar nihāl.
In the realm of Truth, the Formless Lord abides. Having created the creation, He watches over it.


ਤਿਥੈ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਵਰਭੰਡ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਥੈ ਤ ਅੰਤ ਨ ਅੰਤ ॥
Ŧithai kẖand mandal varbẖand. Jė ko kathai ṯa anṯ na anṯ.
There are planets, solar systems and galaxies. If one speaks of them, there is no limit, no end.


ਤਿਥੈ ਲੋਅ ਲੋਅ ਆਕਾਰ ॥ ਜਿਵ ਜਿਵ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤਿਵੈ ਤਿਵ ਕਾਰ ॥
Ŧithai lo­a lo­a ākār. Jiv jiv hukam ṯivai ṯiv kār.
There are worlds upon worlds of His Creation. As He commands, so they exist.


ਵੇਖੈ ਵਿਗਸੈ ਕਰਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਥਨਾ ਕਰੜਾ ਸਾਰੁ ॥੩੭॥
vėkẖai vigsai kar vīcẖār. Nānak kathnā karṛā sār. ॥37॥
He watches over all, and contemplating the creation, He rejoices. O Nanak, to describe this is as hard as steel! ॥37॥

That's a great goal to have
Yes my religion does belive that Satan=God although how we view Satan can vary from person to person. I can PM you links to some informative websites if you like? purely as educational info, pleased don't think I'm trying to get converts

There is a small discussion on theistic satanism and Sikhsm in the inter-faith section, you will find it via the search button.

Yeah, some links and educational info on your religion would be much appreciated

Sinister ji, you can't be serious!
Anything that can affect the emotional state of man is enough proof of the exitence of the emotional state or what causes the state?
Dead people can cause emotional states, does that mean they still exist?
Fictitous characters can cause emotional states, do they exist?
To cause an emotional state all you need is something to relate to, and this is often something very human'ish.
God = Truth does not create an emotional state, on the other hand, a personal God who takes care of you, is like a father, listens, rewards and punishes, causes many more emotional states than REAL people, sometimes.

I don't think you understand the context in which Sam Harris is criticizing in or maybe you just haven't watched the video.
Higher level physics like bending of space time continuum is based on math. And the mathematical models it uses can be explained (albeit with much difficulty) from smaller concepts. and there are experiments that provide evidence, and support those mathematical concepts. With something like String theory, you don't have evidence. But even string theorists agree that final test of truth will be through experimentation and collection of emprical evidence.

Quote:

Nobody seems to be asking the right questions; why does god exist or how god could exist? Or what is the nature of existence?

Why not ask following questions as well:
How do we know if he exists? What evidence is there for His existence?


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I don't think the passage you quoted shows that your translation is correct.
I think I'll go with the translations of Sant Singh ji and Manmohan Singh ji.
Sat = true, Nam = name

obviously, I wasn't satisfied with the response before, which is why I brought it up again.

Yes I agree! Let us ask: why does god exist, how could god exist, what is the nature of existence, how do we know if he exists, and what evidence is there for His existence?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

I am sure that you all know what my thoughts are on the those questions, yet I am quite curious to know what your thoughts are, because I want to know what devout Sikhs think of those questions.