Is There A God?

jaspi · #**298** (**permalink**) 21-Aug-2010, 08:34 AM

SS AKAL JI.

Myself I am really shocked by the questions and answer on Sikh philosophy forum .
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/29504-is-there-a-god.html

There are two thing to consider:

-GOD
-KARMA

1. Nanak used a very simple language to explain about Ek Onkar.(GOD)

2. Karma

Simply what most of the prophets or messenger quoted as :

"What you sow ,so shall you reap." Moses

" Karmi apo apni ke neher kia door" Nanak

"Action and reactions are equal and opposite" scientist physist Paul newnam

So basically there are two belief to consider.

Leave the God alone because there is no one came or existing human being can speak about the Almighty . refe. Jap ji Sahib".

Karma one must get it back according to his deed in this world before dieing. Other all rules and instructions how to live in healthy society. Like ten Commandments is nothing but bunches of t rule to live in Harmony.

Stop talking about God who has nothing to do with punishing any one or rewarding any
one but regardless of any reasons we must appreciate for his creations.That is it what say Nanak.

All these bunches of people or priests who organized the religion and created hatred are old time business to rule the society.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

Nanak never created in religion . His preaching and consideration of all of us with one belief that we all come from one light which means it's a universal religion not only for the Sikhs.

Sikh means just a learner . Learner of what? Truth.

Jaspi

polpol · #**299** (**permalink**) 21-Aug-2010, 19:58 PM

[QUOTE=Tejwant Singh;132005]Pol Pol ji and Seeker 3k ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am confused by the question,"Does God beleave in you"?

Only mortal people believe in each other in the animal world.

So, my question to both of you is that in your minds, is God a mortal being when you pose this question to yourself, to each other and to others?

I know in Sikhi that is not the case with Ik Ong Kaar.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

Regards

Tejwant ji,
I came up with the idea that I beleave in God because God beleaves in me a few years ago. It was an affirmation which I turned into a question for others as another way of reflecting on our relation to God. Of course I don't see God as a mortal being, but being myself a mortal ie. limited by language, culture and intelligeance, I can only refer to God in mortal terms. I realise it may seem blasphemous and I am sorry if I shocked you. To me it's also a way to express gratitude and joy for God. I also use it as a "boutade" (in French, sorry), to cut short when someone wants to convince me God does not exist, "I cannot help but to beleave in God because God beleaves in me" I don't know how it is called in English that kind of reasoning...anyways I am really sorry if I shocked you. I would be obliged if you explain IK Ong Kaar in Sikhi. Thank you kindly.

Harry Rakhraj · #**300** (**permalink**) 21-Aug-2010, 21:06 PM

That's the beauty of Universal-'ism (apologies to Sarah Palin)---the concept of blasphemy simply doesn't exist.

jasbirkaleka · #**301** (**permalink**) 21-Aug-2010, 21:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by findingmyway

Dear seeker3j Ji,
I am sorry but I don't agree with the above as if that was the case then why should we try and improve ourselves and why should we make an effort in life? Our decisions affect what happens to us. We have to decide whether we go on the path towards God or away from God. If I drive recklessly that will increase my chances of dying whether it was written or not! I'm sorry but I find the idea of God a as a puppet master as absurd! It gives absolutely no incentive for improving oneself and as you said above is not compatible with theory about karma. However, this is straying off the point raised at the beginning of the thread about whether there is a God adn why people believe in God!

Sat Sri Akal,
This discussion has been going on for months and no one has answered convincingly the simple questions,
EXACTELY WHAT DOES GOD DO?
WHAT ARE THE COMPELLING REASONS THAT MAKE US BELIEVE IN HIM?
All I find is the play of words.
According to me, in simple terms. it is the fear psychosis and wishfull thinking that makes man believe in supernatural power or powers

findingmyway · #**302** (**permalink**) 21-Aug-2010, 22:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by findingmyway

Dear Atheist ji (and others),

My proof for God is constantly all around me. I see it in the everyday miracles of life. Science can only go so far in its explanations and admits it has its limitations. Here are a few examples to illustrate but there are millions of possible examples. Science can explain how and why the human body works the way it does but can't explain exactly how things have developed that way-evolution is explained as a process but not why evolution is the way it is. Science explains why and how a butterfly has stunning colours but it cannot explain the pleasure felt by a person watching that butterfly. Science can explain how a brain is wired and which pathways cause which emotions but it can't explain why those pathways are subtly different in different people resulting in different behaviour. Science can explain the process of the big bang but cannot ever know the cause of the big bang and what came before. Science knows that the universe is expanding but can never know what it's expanding into. Science can explain why some plants have healing properties but cannot explain why it is that way-why not all plants or why not others! I could go on forever! I find it incredible that the exact conditions required for a planet so rich in life has been combined for it to happen. I find that miraculous. Science can explain the how but not the why about this fact. Some wise person (Narayanjot Kaur I think) on page 10 said that gravity cannot be directly measured or observed but we know of its existence indirectly through its effects. In the same way I cannot measure or observe God but I believe in the concept of God as I can indirectly see/feel/observe the effects of God all around me. You cannot compare believing in God to believing in unicorns as unicorns are a physical being but God is not. God is perceived indirectly therefore is it a little more comparable to the belief in gravity. I hope this ramble makes sense!

The other reason I believe in God is that the belief for me is strength. I went through a phase after being bullied for 7 years in school of refusing to believe in God as I could not believe that a God would allow so much suffering. I changed after encountering more difficulties later in life and finding only belief in God gave me the strength to deal with life. Belief in God is a great source of strength, inspiration and conscience. It is not the only way to gain these things but when not doing any harm why not. As I said earlier I have proof enough that God exists to convince me.

I thought I did answer the question!!

Atheist Ji, would love to hear your thoughts-it's been a while!

Seeker9 · #**303** (**permalink**) 22-Aug-2010, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasbirkaleka

Sat Sri Akal,
This discussion has been going on for months and no one has answered convincingly the simple questions,
EXACTELY WHAT DOES GOD DO?
WHAT ARE THE COMPELLING REASONS THAT MAKE US BELIEVE IN HIM?
All I find is the play of words.
According to me, in simple terms. it is the fear psychosis and wishfull thinking that makes man believe in supernatural power or powers

Dear JasbirKaleka Ji

These are excellent questions!

If it could be said that having worked our way up the food chain through countless Karmic cycles of births and deaths, the purpose of our human life is to return to Sachkhand, why did we leave in the first place!!
Why did the Soul separate from The Original Source?

Do people who believe in God do so as a comfort thing because it gives their life a purpose and meaning or do they believe as a result of life changing experiences?

I haven't had any such experiences by the way but I nonetheless choose to believe in God. It's a deliberate choice and I may develop my reasoning in another post but for now, it would be interesting to see what others think about the questions you have asked

findingmyway · #**304** (**permalink**) 22-Aug-2010, 05:41 AM

Found this excellent thread which I think will be of interest to several readers of this debate:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/new-to...r-gurbani.html

seeker3k · #**305** (**permalink**) 22-Aug-2010, 07:34 AM

Every one has the right to express his/her opinion. How the life was created in the first place. No one knows not science or religion. Religious people been believing for thousands of years that it was God created life. Weather it be human or smallest life. No one have came back from birth to tell us what goes on when we die. Do we go to Dharmraj where he will check our deed? Then reward or punish us. No living person can go to God and come back to tell us I mean any one. As Jesus said “dead know not”
Let’s say it was God who created us. Is he still getting involved in our daily lives?

When we dies do we Sikhs go to Waheguru or Ram or Jesus Allah? Or they have separate sections? Is there a physical place where Gods live and wait for us? As it is said in dohara after the ardas. This sachkhand is it a real place where our Gurus live and waiting for us?
I also wrote that what seeker9 has asked why we have came from the almighty.

When an actor do his work with passion he can get Oscar. That’s why we are working hard in doing what we r doing.
If God is not a puppet master then what is his work? How can any one say what God do. No one seen God. Every one think they know what God does. That is their belief only. I reaspect their belief. But belief should be based on truth. What is the truth? Every human have his/her own truth. There is not one truth. We can claim that our truth is a real truth. He/she will know at the time of death that he/she been fooled.
If by doing the simran reading bani then all bhai ji must be enlighten. Others who do the nitname should also be enlighten people. I just finished listening the CD by Maskeen the most respected khatha watch. The Guru Arjan said in Sukhmani that only brahm giani can know about brahm giani. Is he claining that he is brahm giani? In that CD there is nothing that he said about brahm. He tell his stories which are baseless.

I agree with Jaspi and I have wrote it in my posts that Nanak did not start the Sikhism.
Nanak’s idea was great. It was way ahead of that time. Now we are stuck in baseless arguments.
As I said before that only the poet knows the real meaning. Reader can only understand what is his awareness. It should have been great if Nanak had wrote in plain language.

What is the difference between discussion and argument?

Discussion is talking about the idea. Argument is personal attack.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

Let’s keep it discussion.

Tejwant Singh · #**306** (**permalink**) 22-Aug-2010, 09:24 AM

Jasbir ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Quote:

This discussion has been going on for months and no one has answered convincingly the simple questions,

Yes, I agree that this interesting discussion has been going on for months and I hope it never stops and we keep on asking questions in order to learn and know ourselves better. But I beg to differ with you on the latter part of your statement. Everyone who has participated in the discussion has answered the questions to best of their abilities.

If you are not convinced then you have every right to ask questions and continue this interesting interaction.

Now let me ask you questions about your own questions that you have posted.

Quote:

EXACTELY WHAT DOES GOD DO?

Exactly, what is God for you?

Please describe from your own perspective him,her or it so that we can find out what he, she, it does.

Please share with us what does the God you have in your mind does?

Quote:

WHAT ARE THE COMPELLING REASONS THAT MAKE US BELIEVE IN HIM?

Why don't you share with us your opinion about the God you have in mind and what makes you believe in him,her it?

As far as I am concerned, belief systems are make believe things. If one is seeking for the truth then one does not have to believe because truth stands on its own. It needs no belief.

Hope to learn from your enlightenment.

Regards

Tejwant Singh