Is There A God?

At this time I don't think a thread would be a good idea. The item you want to discuss is more like a 2 way conversation to iron out a point of disagreement or question. A thread needs to be about a concept, issue or problem that has general interest to the forum.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/29504-is-there-a-god.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

You don't want a thread to be based on a "you said" versus "I said" sort of issue.

So continue discussing that point here. It is relevant to the thread topic as it is about a particular issue that needs clarification. If it goes to a new thread, people following this thread will be left hanging in mid air.

Thanks, Narayanjot Kaur

 
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Dear Bhagat Singh Ji,

In your view are all the people whos bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are equal?

Let take Kabir Ji, some of his bani is not included in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It is called kachi bani. Any bani that is not of any sant bhagat ia kachi bani. It should not be read or used or have same states as what is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It is not my idea it is by the SGPC.
The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is complete by it self. It does not any one’s support to make it any more complete.

Why then you gave the example from Bhai Gurdas’s poems? Is he above the sants and bhagats that we should use his bani to make Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji complete?

Do you have any proof that Nanak gave gadi to Bhai Lehan? I could not find any writing in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji of any guru or bhagat that proves it. It is written in sakhies. Those sakhies were written in the 1800’s. Bhai Gurdas never met Nanak. How can he know any thing about giving gadi to Lehna.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

Lets talk about the facts not just a belief.

More questions to follow

Seeker3k

Point of moderation Seeer3k ji

Yes, The Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is complete by itself. However your questions to Bhagat ji as follows distort the relevance of the vaaran of Bhai Gurdas ji.

Quote:

Why then you gave the example from Bhai Gurdas’s poems? Is he above the sants and bhagats that we should use his bani to make Sri Guru Granth Sahib complete?

The vaaran are considered in the Sikh Rehat Maryada to be acceptable for use in gurdwaras as a way to elaborate on Sri Guru Granth Sahib. According to the Sikh Rehat Maryada,


CHAPTER V

Kirtan (Devotional Hymns Singing by a Group or an Indvidual)

Article VI

a) Only a Sikh may perform Kirtan in a congregation.
b) Kirtan means singing the scriptural compositions in traditional musical measures.
c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.
d) It is improper, while singing hymns to rhythmic folk tunes or to traditional musical measures, or in team singing, to induct into them improvised and extraneous refrains. Only a line from the hymn should be made a refrain.

So Bhagat Singh ji's remarks are not off-base.

Seeker Ji,
Bhai Gurdas's Vaaran can provide some insight into gurbani, and they are important for that reason. To clarify his vaaran are not bani. Also, I admitted that Sri Guru Granth Sahib could possible state something like that. Anyhow, that's what some people believe that bani is God, and I am smply trying to expain their belief, where they might get it from.

My knowledge of those things isn't very great but if we work together, we can find out teh answers to some of your questions.
If you continue to question without spending enough time on previous ones. Then it will seem as if you are just here to agitate people. So can we get back to when I asked you to provide passages from Sri Guru Granth Sahib to support your statements?

Bhagat Singh Ji,

When a man drinks it is said that he is not bad person but it is the whisky that is talking not him. But you know as well I do it is the real self that comes out. Most men who drink they do not abuse their sister or mother. But they always fight with others and in many cases other’s sister or mothers get abused. It is same in any situation when one is agitated the real self comes out. One can pretend to be at peace but only when he is agitated we will know the truth about the person.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

Person who believes will find any reason from any where to justify his belief. He will get agitated when he is pushed in the corner. When don’t have the answer he also get agitated and anger take over.
When ever some one makes us angry, he is controlling us. It uses to be easy to believe and preach any thing. People were naïve they did not knew much. Now with the technology one can find out what is going on the other side of the world. That’s why lot of scandals is coming out in every group. People are educated and know lot more then we believe. When we take other people’s belief apart, rest assured they are going to take our belief apart too. Ever since I can remember Sikhs are taking other religions apart. Nit-picking them. But we get angry when some one points the faults in us.

If you look at the rituals in Sikhism all of them are the copy of Hindus. Yet we criticize Hindus. But we have changed the names of those rituals. We claim that our rituals are respect to god and our gurus. The same thing when Hindus do it is wrong.

We Sikhs agitate all others yet we don’t see it. Who ever criticize us is our friend not our enemy. People are going to take our belief apart it is not going to stop. So we should have the answer to their question. Other wise we will be the laughing stock of the world.

My intention is to know the real thing. I am not into any rituals. If that agitate others so be it.

When Guru Arjan Dev refused to include Gurdas’s vars he got angry. The Arjan Dev made a compromise he said Gurdas’s vars is the key to bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru Arjan Dev didn’t think his vars were good enough to be included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It was not called Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji then it was called pothi. Pothi did not have the same respect as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That is another topic.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504

Now one question: After the mool mantar there is word “jap” then the rest of the pauri is written. What is the meaning of this word?

I am sorry my comp is older I can not copy gurmukhi and paste it my writng. I can not write gurmukhi that good. I just have to explain in normal lingo.


seeker3k

seeekr3k ji

Once again there is considerable confusion in your account of the importance of the vaaran of Bhai Gurdas ji. Would you please provide us with some links, or some print sources, that support your statement quoted above? Who asked Guru Arjan Dev to include the varaan to begin with? Guru Arjan Dev would have to first be asked before he could refuse. Where have your read/heard this? Why would Guru Arjan Dev need to compromise with anyone about anything related to the compilation of the Aad Granth? What were the circumstances that led Guru Arjan Dev to decide that the varaan were not good enough?

I have attached a copy of the work of Professor Sahib Singh - a rather careful history of the compilation of the Aad Granth/Pothi Sahib.

Seeker 3K Ji ,
After the finishing of Moolmantar at GURPARSAAD , the bani JAP starts from the word Jap . Please click on the link below to read it .
PAGE 1 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).

not-ieh auprokq guris`KI dw mUl-mMqr hY [ ies qoN AgWh ilKI geI bwxI dw nwm hY 'jpu' [ ieh g`l cyqy r`Kx vwlI hY ik ieh mUl-mMqr v`KrI cIz hY qy bwxI 'jpu' v`KrI hY [ sRI gurU gRMQ swihb dy SurU ivc ieh mUl-mMqr iliKAw hY, ijvyN hryk rwg dy SurU ivc BI iliKAw imldw hY [ bwxI 'jpu' l&z 'Awid scu' qoN SurU huMdI hY [ Awsw dI vwr dy SurU ivc BI iehI mUl-mMqr hY, pr 'vwr' nwl ies dw koeI sMbMD nhIN hY, iqvyN hI ie`Qy hY [ 'jpu' dy ArMB ivc mMglwcrn dy qOr qy iek slok aucwirAw igAw hY [ iPr ‘jpu’ swihb dIAW 38 pauVIAW hn[
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29504
॥ ਜਪੁ ॥
ies swrI bwxI dw nwm 'jpu' hY [
ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ ॥ ਹੈ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੋਸੀ ਭੀ ਸਚੁ ॥੧॥


This is what I get from that page. I dont understand what is says

Probably because the font on that page is not supported by the fonts on the SPN server. That would be the top reason. Let me take a look.

Added. I went to that page and can read it fine. So the problem is not a mismatch of SPN fonts with fonts from the site.

Added. The page is using MicroLipiLight font and also Web Akhar thick. if you donwload these fonts you should be able to read it.