Sikhs against Abortion

Narayanjot Kaur · #10 (**permalink**) 19-Jun-2009, 23:41 PM

dalsingh ji -- Yes, and it is the aborting of girl foetuses. There is an article in the thread Kaur Power about this issue.
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Hardas Singh · #11 (**permalink**) 20-Jun-2009, 22:13 PM

I've always heard that the idea about the soul entering the body on the 120th day is not based on gurbani, but rather superstition and cultural opinion.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/25451-sikhs-against-abortion.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25451

This may seem like an overly simple question, but how can you tell where one shabad starts and the other ends. Please remember I've never been to a gurdwara, and all of my knowledge of Sikhi has been through research on the internet, and for a limited time from a few books, until my parents forced me to give them away.

I read all of ang 481, but I was still unsure as to which line I had omitted.
The central basis for my opposition towards abortion is based on gurbani, so without gurbani it becomes just another opinion.

Narayanjot Kaur · #12 (**permalink**) 21-Jun-2009, 00:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satyadhi

I've always heard that the idea about the soul entering the body on the 120th day is not based on gurbani, but rather superstition and cultural opinion.

You may be right about this above. I still can't find the sites where I read that but am looking.

This may seem like an overly simple question, but how can you tell where one shabad starts and the other ends. Please remember I've never been to a gurdwara, and all of my knowledge of Sikhi has been through research on the internet, and for a limited time from a few books, until my parents forced me to give them away. This is sad to hear and I hope two things: that you are able to continue your study and that your parent make peace with you and you with them Satyadi ji. There is a story in my own family of my grandfather throwing all of my aunt's books out the window one day -- the few she had --he was in a rage out of fear of losing control of the situation. That was a trauma for her. I hope you can find some peace from your own insights.
I read all of ang 481, but I was still unsure as to which line I had omitted. I don't know where to look to answer this question.
The central basis for my opposition towards abortion is based on gurbani, so without gurbani it becomes just another opinion.

A shabad starts stating the house or mehala (this gives the number of the guru who composed that part of the raag). Tthe raag usually ends with the statement Nanak says, or similar wording. Example below starts on Ang 19, line 7 in Sri raag. The mehalaa or house is 1 - Which means the first Guru, Nanak Dev.

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
sireeraag mehalaa 1 ||
Siree Raag, First Mehl:

ਸੁੰਞੀ ਦੇਹ ਡਰਾਵਣੀ ਜਾ ਜੀਉ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
sunnjee dhaeh ddaraavanee jaa jeeo vichahu jaae ||
The empty body is dreadful, when the soul goes out from within.

It ends with this

ਨਾਨਕ ਦਰਿ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ਸੋ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਪੈਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥੧੪॥
naanak dhar paradhhaan so dharagehi paidhhaa jaae ||4||14||
O Nanak, they are respected at the Lord's Gate; they are robed in honor in the Court of the Lord. ||4||14||Line 12

There are exceptions so you have to see in the text where the significant subdivisions are noted.

This is from Ang 481 which is Raag Aasaa, and there is no house of the Guru because Kabir's bani is included and Kabir is a bhagat. So the text will indicate that.

ਆਸਾ ॥
aasaa ||
Aasaa:

7 ਲੰਕਾ ਸਾ ਕੋਟੁ ਸਮੁੰਦ ਸੀ ਖਾਈ ॥
lankaa saa kott samundh see khaaee ||
A fortress like that of Sri Lanka, with the ocean as a moat around it

and here the section ends,

ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਰੇ ਲੋਈ ॥
kehath kabeer sunahu rae loee ||
Says Kabeer, listen, people:

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੫॥੮॥੨੧॥
raam naam bin mukath n hoee ||5||8||21||
without the Lord's Name, no one is liberated. ||5||8||21||

and you see that it ends with, Says Kabeer. So that way you always know who the sant/ bhagat is if it is a shabad from a bhagat or sant.

In some raags the shabads can run over more than one page so you have to pay attention.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #13 (**permalink**) 21-Jun-2009, 07:33 AM

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the GURUS didnt deal with such mundane "problems" due to that - mundane.
Abortion is NOT ALLOWED as it amounts to Taking a Life.
Even IF its done to "save the mother"..who gives us the authority to decide who lives and who dies ? Arent we being LOBHI/in MOH..when we choose to "save" the mother...because we KNOW HER..as wife/ssiter/relation/friend....and the "foetus" is a STRANGER..UNKNOWN..no relation..no friend...SO WE SAY..KILL IT...NO harm done..who cares and who knows about IT?? Doctors will decide..husbands will decide..fathers will decide...WHO DECIDES / SPEAKS for the UNBORN ??
2. Abortion due to rape...again same arguments.Its a crime...why we decide to punish the foetus ??
IF one is robbed...do we decide to kill the robbers child??? or ROB the robbers family in revenge??
Arguments can go on endlessly....
Same goes for homosexuality, euthanasiah..mercy killing..same sex marriage, and a host of similar..HUMAN FAILINGS/TROUBLES. These are mundane and far below the high spiritual message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji....like children squabbling on the playing field will NOT go to the Supreme Court to settle it. It is futile to go search the Supreme Court Case Files on how to settle the case of Mary running away with Charlies Ball or Cathy tearing a page of Billy's book...similarly to search Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for advise on lesbians, abortions, and such is futile...SELF SEARCH WITHIN is needed.