God As A Doctor

Does God heal?

people pray to God, persuming that God heals, helps them overcome what is written in their Karma.

so if God's power is infinite, and can change the "unchangable" ( another paradox), we can assume that God can regenerate limbs just as easily as he can cure cancer or heal infections or diseases. So why don't we pray that God heal victims who lost their limbs?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/21194-god-as-a-doctor.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194

I have not seen anyone pray as such.

Is it because we ASSUME limits ot God's powers?

or if God actually intervenes in medical conditions, why does he cure conditions like cancer and not also grow lost fingers or feet? Why is God "assumingly" willing to help heal your throat infection, but not willing to give anyone--ever!--the legs he had?

 
Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh!

__________________
Journey ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How do you know if the limbless want legs. Ask a snake if it wants legs. Amar Ji, you mentioned paradox and it interests me because I have also tried to view everything from more than my own view point.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194

How would you or anybody know what is God's plan for Himself. How do you know that you exist ? Can you prove it that you exist ?

i exist because i am asking a question

<How do you know if the limbless want legs. Ask a snake if it wants legs.>
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194

my question is not from an existetialist persepective, it was in the reference to someone who lost a leg in accident. Why would they not "pray" or "wish" their leg back?

it is basic human psychology that drives the artificial limb market.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194

the question is - Do we "assume" limits to God's powers?

Do we inadverdently try to "define" God?

or are we inventing something that is just a random series of events in a universe, that exists or even does not.

Amar Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194

You are asking the question, therefore you exist. What makes you have compassion in your heart for those how have lost a limb or one who is suffering from a disease ?

Greetings!

of course

yes, it’s only natural to do so. Infinity is not perceivable so it is not of any interest to us.

LoL…a punch-line I dare not touch
One could argue that these are remnants of polytheism and paganism that reside within the larger ‘Psyche’ of many Sikhs and non-Sikhs alike.

Polytheistic gods were always constrained by fate and to some extent their 'logical surroundings'. From Levantine Greek mythology to Hinduism you will see gods that operate under certain rules, constraints and conditions. This ‘humanizes’ them and makes them believable; along with the tall-tales, which are filled with ludicrous pangs and struggles. The more refined product is just Moses, Jesus, Muhammed and the slave morality, which they all preached. Not to forget the deification of the Sikh Guru’s which many people in our community do.


My take:
What is religion and metaphysical philosophy?
It is glorified entertainment and should be given the same respect that Britney Spears got after her mtv movie awards performance (a little love and with a little hate).

So watch and participate from time to time.

Recourse:
Let us pray for the death of absolute certainty and mock anything that conditions an insult to our limitations of reason.

Cheers,
Hope you were entertained. (put star rating here)

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੪ ॥
सिरीरागु महला १ घरु ४ ॥
Sirīrāg mehlā 1 gẖar 4.
Siree Raag, First Mehl, Fourth House:
ਤੂ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਦਾਨਾ ਬੀਨਾ ਮੈ ਮਛੁਲੀ ਕੈਸੇ ਅੰਤੁ ਲਹਾ ॥
तू दरीआउ दाना बीना मै मछुली कैसे अंतु लहा ॥
Ŧū ḏarī*ā*o ḏānā bīnā mai macẖẖulī kaisė anṯ lahā.
You are the River, All-knowing and All-seeing. I am just a fish-how can I find Your limit?
ਜਹ ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਤਹ ਤੂ ਹੈ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਨਿਕਸੀ ਫੂਟਿ ਮਰਾ ॥੧॥
जह जह देखा तह तह तू है तुझ ते निकसी फूटि मरा ॥१॥
Jah jah ḏėkẖā ṯah ṯah ṯū hai ṯujẖ ṯė niksī fūt marā. ||1||
Wherever I look, You are there. Outside of You, I would burst and die. ||1||
ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਮੇਉ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ਜਾਲੀ ॥
न जाणा मेउ न जाणा जाली ॥
Na jāṇā mė*o na jāṇā jālī.
I do not know of the fisherman, and I do not know of the net.
ਜਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਲਾਗੈ ਤਾ ਤੁਝੈ ਸਮਾਲੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जा दुखु लागै ता तुझै समाली ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jā ḏukẖ lāgai ṯā ṯujẖai samālī. ||1|| rahā*o.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194
But when the pain comes, then I call upon You. ||1||Pause||
ਤੂ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਮੈ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
तू भरपूरि जानिआ मै दूरि ॥
Ŧū bẖarpūr jāni*ā mai ḏūr.
You are present everywhere. I had thought that You were far away.
ਜੋ ਕਛੁ ਕਰੀ ਸੁ ਤੇਰੈ ਹਦੂਰਿ ॥
जो कछु करी सु तेरै हदूरि ॥
Jo kacẖẖ karī so ṯėrai haḏūr.
Whatever I do, I do in Your Presence.
ਤੂ ਦੇਖਹਿ ਹਉ ਮੁਕਰਿ ਪਾਉ ॥
तू देखहि हउ मुकरि पाउ ॥
Ŧū ḏėkẖeh ha*o mukar pā*o.
You see all my actions, and yet I deny them.
ਤੇਰੈ ਕੰਮਿ ਨ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਇ ॥੨॥
तेरै कमि न तेरै नाइ ॥२॥
Ŧėrai kamm na ṯėrai nā*ė. ||2||
I have not worked for You, or Your Name. ||2||
ਜੇਤਾ ਦੇਹਿ ਤੇਤਾ ਹਉ ਖਾਉ ॥
जेता देहि तेता हउ खाउ ॥
Jėṯā ḏeh ṯėṯā ha*o kẖā*o.
Whatever You give me, that is what I eat.
ਬਿਆ ਦਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੈ ਦਰਿ ਜਾਉ ॥
बिआ दरु नाही कै दरि जाउ ॥
Bi*ā ḏar nāhī kai ḏar jā*o.
There is no other door-unto which door should I go?
ਨਾਨਕੁ ਏਕ ਕਹੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥
नानकु एक कहै अरदासि ॥
Nānak ėk kahai arḏās.
Nanak offers this one prayer:
ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰੈ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੩॥
जीउ पिंडु सभु तेरै पासि ॥३॥
Jī*o pind sabẖ ṯėrai pās. ||3||
this body and soul are totally Yours. ||3||
ਆਪੇ ਨੇੜੈ ਦੂਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਆਪੇ ਮੰਝਿ ਮਿਆਨ ॥
आपे नेड़ै दूरि आपे ही आपे मंझि मिआनो ॥
Āpė nėṛai ḏūr āpė hī āpė manjẖ mi*āno.
He Himself is near, and He Himself is far away; He Himself is in-between.
ਆਪੇ ਵੇਖੈ ਸੁਣੇ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਜਹਾਨ ॥
आपे वेखै सुणे आपे ही कुदरति करे जहानो ॥
Āpė vėkẖai suṇė āpė hī kuḏraṯ karė jahāno.
He Himself beholds, and He Himself listens. By His Creative Power, He created the world.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194
ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਸੋਈ ਪਰਵਾਨ ॥੪॥੩੧॥
जो तिसु भावै नानका हुकमु सोई परवानो ॥४॥३१॥
Jo ṯis bẖāvai nānkā hukam so*ī parvāno. ||4||31||
Whatever pleases Him, O Nanak-that Command is acceptable. ||4||31||

All jio

Hukme under sabh ko
bahir Hukm na koe
Nanak Hukme je bujhe ta haomai kahe n koe Japji Sahib

Ego rips up off the beauty of spiritual growth.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194

It is said also about those who are inflated with ego of intelligence-
sehs syanpan lakh hoe ikk n challe naal Japji Sahib

Who had that experience is our Guru, who doesnt like to believe in him, it is also His Hukm
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194
Cheers can follow with sorrows, it is matter of time.

Amarsanghera ji” so if God's power is infinite, and can change the "unchangable" ( another paradox), we can assume that God can regenerate limbs just as easily as he can cure cancer or heal infections or diseases. So why don't we pray that God heal victims who lost their limbs?

In spiritual world of Guru Nanak, mind is inspired to understand the existence of His creation to walk on a path that leads to HIM. If any one is tempted to do that kind of prayer you said above, why should it be expected to be fulfilled? As per Gurbani, I don’t think prayer should be done to gain any thing but His grace. Its all our created mess, live it and clean it.

I have not seen anyone pray as such.
I strongly agree with you amar ji, but some people do it, not exactly though, but those prayers sound as weird as you have pointed out.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194

or if God actually intervenes in medical conditions, why does he cure conditions like cancer and not also grow lost fingers or feet? Why is God "assumingly" willing to help heal your throat infection, but not willing to give anyone--ever!--the legs he had?

People give different colors if beyond medical reach some thing happens. They assume on their guessing power, reality remains mystery.
__________________
namjap ji

namjap ji quote
How would you or anybody know what is God's plan for Himself.

None would ever know as per Guru Nanak, people just try to say as per their capability
__________________

amarsanghera ji
Do we inadverdently try to "define" God?

Guru ji answered that long time ago, HE is inexpressible "apaar"=infinite, I doubt it was defined inadvertently because experience with HIM was also shared (Magh ji ki Vaar Stanza 27) I believe you and I believe and satisfied in that definition.
Here it is
“ HE is not obtained by by intellect, study or great cleverness, whom the heart longs is obtained by love” Asa, 1, Shant 1

Further, experience happens. if one can pay attention to understand the following,

“ as fragrance dwells in flower, or reflection in a mirror.
So does God dwells inside everything, seek HIM therefore in the heart” Dhanasri Mehla 9

Sinisterji quote
My take:
What is religion and metaphysical philosophy?
It is glorified entertainment and should be given the same respect that Britney Spears got after her mtv movie awards performance (a little love and with a little hate).

No sinister ji, it is not like that. I shall not pose any personal question but it will be very close to it, please don’t mind it.
Have you met any one in deeply love with some one? Go and ask that person, whom he or she is crazy for. His or her answer will lead you to an individual, may be very ordinary; however, for a person, who is in love, he/she has become a world for Him/her
In an entertainment mood, you can smile and murmur” this is he/she is crazy for?” surely you will fail to know the reality behind that unless you have experience of that.. It is only an example of worldly love that sounds crazy to those who are not part of it. Spiritual seeker has an elevated state of mind, people like you and me will be a way back even to comprehend the ecstasy of that mind.. There is not only what we see, there are many things we are unable to see, the roads do not end to your or mine back yard only.


again Sinister ji
Recourse:
Let us pray for the death of absolute certainty and mock anything that conditions an insult to our limitations of reason.

Why to pray? Just accept it, by the way, limited reason is itself an insult, it is question of admitting it

Cheers,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=21194
Hope you were entertained. ([IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Gurdeep/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]put star rating here[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Gurdeep/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG])

Sorry Sinister ji, I thought all was serious comments so I found nothing for entertainment save for few statements a way much away from comedy sense. Sorry no star, but I believe big hearts always forgive!!!!

Pk70 let me explain again what exactly I am trying to relay, I think there might have been a degree of misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

Amar ji asked,

Is god a healer?

The answer from me would be; no.

My comical answer would be; if god is a healer he/she needs to go back to med school.
(now that’s just for entertainment)

My proof: reliabilism

My point:
We put parameters on God…as individuals. Which is wrong but natural and understandable because we, as the pesky humans, are plagued with self-consciousness and do not wish the destruction of the self which death may bring. So what do we do? We pray when death is near, hoping that someone will hear our pathetic, vulnerable and meager calls.

I know this sounds myopic and a very elitist but this does occur amongst the people living the ‘unexamined life’. (heck may even occur with me when i am on my deathbed)

Another observation:
But we must be careful; we cannot pray for too much…we stay constrained within the boundaries of reason whenever we pray because we are scared of disappointment. If god does not follow through it may be a blow to our belief system (again destruction of the I), which we spent years of our lives constructing like a pyramid. Although we have a perfectly rational excuse in Karma ideology if he doesn’t answer our prayer, we continue to keep our prayers within the laws of science and physics, unless you are 5 years old, when you pray for more extravagant things…like the power to fly through walls and rob the local sweets shop, or in this case the ability to regenerate limbs.




Discourse con’td (feel free to disagree):
However what I found intriguing is this:

If you have accepted the death of absolute uncertainty

And are no longer just praying for it …. Why do you so adamantly believe in the existence of love? A state of Absolute Uncertainty would not allow it.

And if absolute uncertainty does not allow it…then it is unreasonable to say that someone has accepted a state of absolute uncertainty.

This is where I think you are confused with my statement “let us pray for the death of absolute certainty” (because no one, including myself, will ever reach this state; I am absolutely certain of that)

We can only pray for the death of absolute certainty… however it is unlikely to come to any reality. Thus the enlightened spiritual seeker is one who is beyond this prayer. A spiritual seeker is someone who is absolutely uncertain. Beyond the belief in love and hate…a person who governs himself beyond reason simply, on the basis of perception and taste (and that is the nature of things as I see them...i also believe that maybe sikhi also saw this...i may be dead wrong...but thats what feel. It has a ring of 'truthiness' a word coined by a satirical comedian, Stephen Colbert).

Now, as far as forgiveness goes…I don’t believe in it. A formal forgiveness is a gift you give to strangers and I see no strangers amongst us.
I hold no grudges

Cheers (no joke)



Summary:
The only mind that is enlightened is a mind that has reached a point of absolute uncertainty?
Agree/disagree with this as you wish.



Something to ponder:
Is
absolute uncertainty = absolute certainty

My premise:
To be absolutely uncertain about something is to be certain that there is no answer. So absolute uncertainty may entail some degree of certainty. However, you can also be uncertain that the answer to the question is absolutely uncertain.

These are both regressive arguments…stretching to infinity

Thus:

Absolute uncertainty = Absolute certainty

(Please Note: I do not know this for certain)