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28-10-2007, 08:09 PM
|  | SPN Sewadaar | | Enrolled: Apr 2006
Posts: 468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkhalsa  Dear Bhagat Singh ji
I am in no postion to oppose yo and its ok with me if you believ that Women should wear Keski
But I would just like to disscuss something about which I was also confused in past so thought of sharing
YOU said
Yes Agree !! totallt But does this mean that BOTH men and Women should be same iin each and every aspect? to the extent they even look similar?
Treating equally not neccesarily mean that creating clones of everything as this does not even applies in Nature
Do you think GOD treated Man and Woman differently by giving some features like beard and mustache to one and other with organs to give child birth does this mans inequality
Equally means more in sense that they are denied anything that they deserved according to need and this explains the wearing of Keski ( if its true! i Dont think so !) by warior women
My intention was never to lecture something but just share the confusion I had in past so thought of sharing with you
Respectfully
Jatinder Singh | OK I like that argument but Ive "heard" that wearing the turban can benefit the wearer, I am not 100% sure I can see their logic and I agree to the people who say this to an extent. So U could say that Guru GObind singh ji knew this, so he told everyone to wear a turban. If not? then
Turban is obiously great protection. Especially a Dhumalla, this is a fact. IT acts like a comfortable helmet. SO the fact that all Sikh warriors (men and women) wore them should not surprise you.
Turbans come from royalty. Since women were treated like dirt back then, I think guru ji would have advised the women to wear turbans to uplift their status in the soceity and it would have boosted their confidence. Because genereally when people wear turbans they feel "special"  __________________ www.prince911.deviantart.com 
Sarbloh wallpaper now available, please click on the link/pic above to access it. Let me know if there are any problems with it  . Suggestions, ideas and critisism is always appreciated.
"As his turban was knocked off, his hair opened. But Sarbloh stood there, silent. Behind his hair, I could see his expression change from serious to that of an angry bull. He clenched his fists as he charged towards his attacker!" - Tej Singh MUTANTS |
29-10-2007, 10:27 AM
| | SPN Forum Leader | | Enrolled: Apr 2005 Location: INDIA Age: 27
Posts: 1,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BhagatSingh hmm... ok i want to see proof of women NOT wearing dastaars during guru gobind singh's time and before the 70's. Let be clarify as I have trouble with words, a turban on a woman would not be the social norm at gurus time. ON the other hand, it wud be the norm on a man. Its not a MAJOR factor but it certainly is a factor. and yes Sikh bibiyan are/were very tough. NO i dont think guru gobind singh ji treated women differently. That ok or not ok thing was set by SGPC.
I think we all agree on the fact that all Sikh female warriors wore turbans.  | You are right dastar on women would not be a norm on women that's why non Sikh historian should had written this thing.but no such thing was written by them.
As far Sikh women before 70's are concerned just ask old Sikh ladies whether they wore dastar or not.you will find old Sikh ladies with little beard but with dastar its very difficuilt
Also non Sikh people who wrote about practices and customs of sikhs did not mention anything about dastar on women
you will also find Sikh women in pre partition and partition documentries were without dastar.
so please don't think that dastar was norm for majority of Sikh women
 |
29-10-2007, 09:29 PM
| | SPN Sewadaar | | Enrolled: Apr 2006
Posts: 468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kds1980 You are right dastar on women would not be a norm on women that's why non Sikh historian should had written this thing.but no such thing was written by them.
As far Sikh women before 70's are concerned just ask old Sikh ladies whether they wore dastar or not.you will find old Sikh ladies with little beard but with dastar its very difficuilt
Also non Sikh people who wrote about practices and customs of sikhs did not mention anything about dastar on women
you will also find Sikh women in pre partition and partition documentries were without dastar.
so please don't think that dastar was norm for majority of Sikh women | Ok fair enough. But I see european women wearing turbans. Don't you think they got it from somewhere. I mean it was sort of a men's thing. Maybe those women were inspired by Singhniyan. Dont think I am dont understand what ur saying or i am arguing. All i am doing is clearing up my doubts. __________________ www.prince911.deviantart.com
Sarbloh wallpaper now available, please click on the link/pic above to access it. Let me know if there are any problems with it . Suggestions, ideas and critisism is always appreciated.
"As his turban was knocked off, his hair opened. But Sarbloh stood there, silent. Behind his hair, I could see his expression change from serious to that of an angry bull. He clenched his fists as he charged towards his attacker!" - Tej Singh MUTANTS |
30-10-2007, 01:29 AM
| | SPN Forum Leader | | Enrolled: Apr 2005 Location: INDIA Age: 27
Posts: 1,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BhagatSingh Ok fair enough. But I see european women wearing turbans. Don't you think they got it from somewhere. I mean it was sort of a men's thing. Maybe those women were inspired by Singhniyan. Dont think I am dont understand what ur saying or i am arguing. All i am doing is clearing up my doubts. |
From my knowledge of Sikhism practised in western countries is that in west the prachar of sikhi is mainly done by 3ho ,akj, and other jatha's.Majority of them support vegetarianism
and dastar for women.this could the reason for western Sikh women to wear dastar
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30-10-2007, 04:55 AM
| | SPN Sewadaar | | Enrolled: Apr 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kds1980 From my knowledge of Sikhism practised in western countries is that in west the prachar of sikhi is mainly done by 3ho ,akj, and other jatha's.Majority of them support vegetarianism
and dastar for women.this could the reason for western Sikh women to wear dastar | i meant non sikhs, BTW u still didnt answer all of my question since I asked where did they get the idea of dastaar from? __________________ www.prince911.deviantart.com
Sarbloh wallpaper now available, please click on the link/pic above to access it. Let me know if there are any problems with it . Suggestions, ideas and critisism is always appreciated.
"As his turban was knocked off, his hair opened. But Sarbloh stood there, silent. Behind his hair, I could see his expression change from serious to that of an angry bull. He clenched his fists as he charged towards his attacker!" - Tej Singh MUTANTS |
30-10-2007, 07:40 AM
| | SPN Forum Leader | | Enrolled: Apr 2005 Location: INDIA Age: 27
Posts: 1,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BhagatSingh i meant non sikhs, BTW u still didnt answer all of my question since I asked where did they get the idea of dastaar from? | I don't know anything about non Sikh european women wearing dastar.
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09-01-2008, 08:21 PM
| | gone to greener pastures | | Enrolled: Apr 2007
Posts: 942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BhagatSingh fair enough, i like ur question.
Here are my two cents: Sikh Women did wear turbans during Gurus time but stopped wearing turbans because of fashion and a big influence of hindu culture. (its the same with men). Here's why: Only Sikh women wore a turban at the time. Compared to Sikh men that was pretty tough job considering no other woman wud wear a turban. But in case of men, there were many that wore turbans (from other religions and cultures). So my understanding is the Sikh women slowly stopped wearing turbans because it became hard for them to be the ONLY ones wearing turbans and also because of hindu culture. Now Sikh men are the only ones wearing turbans, so its becoming hard for them as well, and they are responding similarly. I think its even harder now because of the terroerists wearing turbans. So now sikhs men have even more to deal with. I hope u understand wut i mean, cuz i am not good with words. |
from what i understand, Sikh women stopped wearing turbans because the mughals used to pay people to bring in a Sikh's head. women in turbans were also decapitated and their heads brought in, disguised as the heads of boys. so the women stopped wearing dastaar in order to protect themselves from this bounty. after a while, the custom of women in dastaar just faded away. __________________ -Archived_Member
aakha jeeva visrai mar jao |
09-01-2008, 08:23 PM
| | gone to greener pastures | | Enrolled: Apr 2007
Posts: 942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BhagatSingh hmm ok, fair enuff but u dint read the next part
Women in no other culture wear turbans, so it wud be pretty hard for women to keep turbans.
. | this is incorrect. many women in african and carribean countries wear turbans. also in the west, turbans have been fashionable at various times, you can see them in 18th century paintings, photos from the 1920s, or on the fashion runways last year. they are also worn by women who's hair has fallen out due to disease, etc. __________________ -Archived_Member
aakha jeeva visrai mar jao |
09-01-2008, 08:29 PM
| | gone to greener pastures | | Enrolled: Apr 2007
Posts: 942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kds1980 From my knowledge of Sikhism practised in western countries is that in west the prachar of sikhi is mainly done by 3ho ,akj, and other jatha's.Majority of them support vegetarianism
and dastar for women.this could the reason for western Sikh women to wear dastar |
another reason could be that in western culture, women are given equal status as men, and take advantage of the fact that sikhi ALSO gives us equal status.
in india, Sikh women are said to be equals, but are not treated as such, and possibly don't have the same confidence that western women have (we've also discussed how indian women don't often discuss sikhi in online forums for similar reasons).
in the west, Sikh women want to be recognized as sikhs. we don't want to be mistaken for muslims by wearing a dupatta on our heads. the dastaar gives a feeling of strength and confidence that can only be experienced by wearing it.
FYI- i wear a dastaar but follow panthic rehet and believe in the concept of EKTA (a united panth), so do not follow any jatha or 3ho.  __________________ -Archived_Member
aakha jeeva visrai mar jao |
09-01-2008, 09:40 PM
| | SPN Forum Leader | | Enrolled: Apr 2005 Location: INDIA Age: 27
Posts: 1,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasleen_kaur from what i understand, Sikh women stopped wearing turbans because the mughals used to pay people to bring in a Sikh's head. women in turbans were also decapitated and their heads brought in, disguised as the heads of boys. so the women stopped wearing dastaar in order to protect themselves from this bounty. after a while, the custom of women in dastaar just faded away. | As far as my knowledge of Sikh history is concerned there is no reliable evidence that large number of Sikh women wore turban | |
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