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Misrepresentation of Gurbani and the Sikh Religion by Vested Interests

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Old 13-Dec-2004, 00:24 AM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Introduction
Guru Nanak (1469-1539) laid the foundation of Sikhi (Sikhism) during the 15th century, the Period of Renaissance (between 14th and 17th century) when the scientists were challenging some of the concepts of the Church in Europe. During this period Guru Nanak was busy in challenging the ancient mythology and rituals in which the peoples of South Asia were shackled for centuries. I am proud to claim that it was Guru Nanak who promulgated a scientific and logical philosophy during the 15th century for the world to create a sense of morality to establish peace on this earth. The irony is that after five centuries if we examine the effect of teachings of Guru Nanak on humanity in general and on the Sikhs in particular, it will not be difficult to come to the conclusion that what the Sikhs are doing today is exactly contrary to the Nanakian Philosophy [1].

Causes
It happened so because of the absence of preaching of Gurbani and Sikhism in their real perspective by the so-called custodians of Sikhism after the end of era of the Sikh Gurus in 1708. After the time of Banda Bahadur majority of the Sikhs were living in the forests and during this period preaching of Gurbani and Sikhism, and control of the Sikh institutions fell into the hands of the Biprans (Who work against the Nanakian Philosophy). This situation continued to be in the same state even during the reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and thereafter. During the Singh Sabha Movement some attempts were made to interpret Gurbani and represent Sikhism in their real perspective by some dedicated Sikh scholars. Soon this movement was taken over by the Sikh scholars who were heavily burdened with the ancient philosophy, mythology and Bipreet (Ritualism or practices which are contrary to the Nanakian Philosophy). During this period the use of discriminating intellect (Babaek Budhi) to find the truth was discouraged and was declared as sin by the Biprans. It is still happening so during the Age of Science.

During the early 1900s Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) came into existence with main objective to manage the Gurdwaras and preaching of Gurbani and Sikhism in their real perspective. The SGPC did very commendable work by establishing educational institutions, hospitals and improving managements of Gurdwaras. It was holding very prestigious position in the hearts of the Sikh masses and national political leaders of India, like, Jawahar Lal Nehru, Mahatma Gandhi, and others during the struggle of independence of India. Prof Harbans Singh declared SGPC as a “Unique Ecclesiastical Institution” of the Sikhs and Dr Khushwant Singh entitled it as “Parliament of the Sikhs” and “A government within the government.”
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/1191-misrepresentation-gurbani-sikh-religion-vested-interests.html

Soon after the independence of India in 1947 the SGPC started to show decline in its administration and further improvement in the management of Gurdwaras and educational institutions. Rifts started among the members of the SGPC and with those of the Shiromani Akali Party (SAD). These rifts reached at their peak during the celebration of Tercentenary of Khalsa in 1999. This situation is still worsening every day; consequently, there are many SGPCs, Alkali Dals, many Sikh student Federations, many Sikh Youth Federations, many Sikh Councils, and many claimants of Akal Takht. Now recently a Khalsa Panchayat has come into existence that is after certain corrupt Jathedars of certain Takhts.

Recent struggle on the election of the President of the SGPC during October-November 2002 became a news of the world and many state governments as well as Central Government were involved in it seriously. It had once again confirmed that the Sikhs are so much divided that they spend most of their time and money on fighting with each other rather than on proper management of Gurdwaras, dissemination of Sikhism and welfare of the Sikhs.

The Institute of Sikh Studies (IOSS), Chandigarh has also reached to the conclusion in 2001 Conference that almost all the Sikh institutions, e.g. The Akal Takht, SGPC, Amritsar, Delhi Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, Chief Khalsa Diwan, Sikh Educational Conference and the recently formed World Sikh Council failed badly to represent Gurbani and Sikhism in their real perspective and to look after the interest of the Sikhs.

Taking the advantage of the internal feud between Sikh religious and political authorities the Biprans (includes Sikhs as well as non-Sikhs) have joined their hands and started to propagate Sikhism in their own way and some are trying to amalgamate it with Hinduism. Currently a lot of misinformation about Sikhism is being reported in all types of media by Biprans. Since the Sikh history and literature published during the 18th and 19th century is full of misinterpretations of Nanakian Philosophy and misrepresentations of Sikhism, therefore, these sources are being exploited to their maximum extent to achieve their above objectives. The notable writings from the old literature on Sikhism, which carry a lot misinformation about Gurbani and Sikhism, are as follows:


Dasam Granth, ~1721 CE. Supposed to be compiled by Bhai Mani Singh after collecting various Banis ascribed to Guru Gobind Singh;
Sri Gur Subha, 1711 CE, by Sainapat;
Gur Bilas Patshahi 6, 1751 CE, Anonymous;
Bansavelinama, 1769 CE, by Kesar Singh Chibber;
Gur Bilas Patshahi 10, 1797 CE, by Sukha Singh;
Parchia Pathshayan Das, early 18th century;
Panth Parkash, 1809 CE, by Rattan Singh;
Sarbloh Granth, by Sukha Singh?;
Mehma Parkash;
Prem Sumarg;
Janam Sakhis and Chamatkars of Sikh Gurus by various authors,
Rehit Namae by various authors;
Hukmnamae issued by the Sikh Gurus at various times; and many more such writings.

In these days Dasam Granth is being portrayed as religious and literary work of highest quality composed entirely by Guru Gobind Singh. Just a simple example, based on the information given in the Dasam Granth Guru Gobind has been declared as a devotee of Goddess Chandi in the NCERT syllabus book “Medieval India” prescribed for class XI. Lot of misrepresentations of Sikhism are appearing in the current media and many of such misrepresentations are based on the misinformation given in the above books.

Although these old writings contain some useful historical data, a lot of information is contrary to the Nanakian Philosophy, incorporated in the Aad Guru Granth Sahib (AGGS). The contradictory information given in such books is used to misinterpret Gurbani and misrepresent Sikhism by the Biprans, which includes many Sikh scholars. I would like to report some views about this situation as follows:

1. According to Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha [3] the old Sikh literature (of the 18th and 19th centuries) has been written according to the level of intelligence and beliefs of the writers. From this old literature we are getting a lot of useful information as well as that is contrary to the Gurmat. He has also emphasized that the most important thing is that there is a dearth of research scholars but on the other hand there are many who are deadly against the research scholars and would declare them as atheists or the enemies of Gurmat.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191
2. Piara Singh Padam [5] says about Rehit Namae that: “It is a mistake to accept every information given in every Rehit Nama is according to Gurmat. Many authors have written according to their own level of intelligence or under the influence of manmat (under the influence of ancient philosophy, ritualism, etc.), that are not right.”
3. Similarly, Harinder Singh Mehboob [2] has reported that 85 out of 87 Hukmnamae recorded in the book, Hukmnamae, of Ganda Singh [6], are fake Hukmnamae.
4. Now more and more such Rehit Namae and Hukmnamae are being discovered which support the already misinterpreted Gurbani and misrepresented Sikhism. For example, Hukmnama issued by Guru Gobind Singh to the Sangat of Kabul is the recent ‘discovery’, which is not found in Ganda Singh’s book, Hukmnamae.

Any genuine effort taken by any scrupulous Sikh scholar, who tried to preach Nanakian Philosophy and Sikhism in their real perspective, has been treated very badly by the so-called authorities on Sikhism. Many such scholars were excommunicated. For example, Prof Gurmukh Singh was excommunicated in 1887 CE by Maan Singh, the Manager of Golden Temple Complex, Amritsar due to the pressure put by the opposition members (Arya Samajists), especially, Baba Khem Singh Bedi, Raja Bikram Singh, and Avtar Singh Vahiria, of the Singh Sabha. The opposition members were also trying to keep ancient mythology and rituals in Sikhism and to continue Guru-ship in living persons. Baba Khem Singh Bedi of this group was acclaimed as the 13th position in Guru Nanak’s lineage by his associates and followers. Similarly, the press of Ditt Singh, an excellent orator, writer, and a colleague of Prof Gurmukh Singh, was put out of business because of litigation by the opposing group (Arya Samajists) in Singh Sabha [Inferred from the data given in ref. # 4].

About a century ago, it was Karam Singh, a famous Sikh historian, who took courage to analyze the Janam Sakhi (biography) of Guru Nanak written by Bhai Bala. He proved in his book, Katik kae Vaisakh [7], that the stories recorded in it cannot pass the test of Gurbani, science, and logic, the touchstones of truth. Guru Nanak has been portrayed as a great Hindu but lower in spirituality than Bhagat Kabir and Hundal. His book was removed from the sale list by the Khalsa Diwan most probably by Giani Gian Singh soon after its publication [inferred from the letter of Giani Gian Singh published in the new edition. Ref. # 7].

Moreover, especially in the West some Sikh individuals, some Gurdwara’s Executives, and some Sikh Organizations have become self styled authorities on Sikhism and are issuing directives to some Sikh scholars to teach Sikhism of their ideology rather than in its real perspective. They are also creating problems for researchers who are challenging misinterpretation of Gurbani and misrepresentation of Sikhism, and unscientific codes and rituals found in the old literature. This is becoming a greatest hurdle in dissemination of Gurbani and Sikhism in their real perspective to the humanity.

In addition to the above direct actions they also force the Jathedar of the Akal Takht to excommunicate some Sikh researchers and writers without proper evaluation of their work. My analysis of this situation is that most of the Sikh scholars cannot dare to speak the truth because of Draconian sword of excommunication is always hanging on their heads.

In the recent past Sikh religious authorities have excommunicated Sikhs of almost all levels of social and political strata and academicians during the period of Bhai Ranjit Singh as the Jathedar of Akal Takht. Unfortunately excommunications continued by Giani Puran Singh, who was appointed to replace Bhai Ranjit Singh, till he was also removed by the SGPC. The newly appointed Jathedar, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, set another bad precedent in the Sikh history when all the closely associated religious and political personnel, who were excommunicate by the previous Jathedar of the Akal Takht, were exonerated while all the five Sikhs of British Columbia, Canada, who challenged the unscientific and illogical Hukmnama of Langar, remained excommunicated.

On the other hand, Recently Gur Bilas Patshahi 6 has been reprinted by the Dharam Parchar Committee of the SGPC, Amritsar. It was edited by two scholars, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, the then Head Granthi of the Harmandar Sahib and now the Jathedar of Akal Takht, and Dr Amarjit Singh, Professor of Shaheed Sikh Missionary College, Amritsar [8].

Gur Bilas Patshahi 6 has regularly been recited in many Gurdwaras in the past and is still being recited in many and also being used by many scholars to construct Sikhism. Its publication has been praised as ‘a unique service, an authentic biography of the Guru, a matchless gift’, etc. by the following religious authorities without analyzing its contents that how much the information given in it is worth and how much goes against the originality and uniqueness of the Gurbani and Sikhism: Bhai Ranjit Singh, the then Jathedar of Akal Takht, Jathedar Gurcharan Singh Tohra, the then President of the SGPC, Bhai Manjit Singh, Jathedar of Takht Kes Garh, Bhai Kewal Singh, Jathedar Takht Damdama Sahib, Bhai Sukhdev Singh Bhaur, the then Acting President of the SGPC, Manjit Singh Calcutta, the then Minister of Higher Education, Punjab, Giani Sant Singh Maskeen, an approved Dharam Parcharak of the SGCP, Bhai Jaswant Singh, Katha Vachak of Gurdwara Manji Sahib, Dalip Singh Maloonagar, the Senior President of SGPC, Joginder Singh Talwara, Narinder Singh Soch, Gianai Balwant Singh ‘Kotha Guru’.

Although Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti and Prof Amarjit Singh have admitted that it contains some denigrating information, even then they have not tried to distinguish that how much is true and how much goes against the Gurbani and Sikhism leaving the readers in confusion. Recently it has come to my notice that the Dharam Parchar Committee of Shrimoni Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC), Amritsar has published the first issue (July 2002) of Gurmat Gian in Hindi for Hindi-speaking people. On the title page they have misconstrued < , the unique logo of Guru Nanak, into Ik Om Kaar in Hindi by representing OM in Hindi and by adding one before it and an extra line at the top of OM. They have not only misconstrued the Logo of Guru Nanak but have mutilated the OM of Hindus also.

If such type of publications are being produced by the so-called authorities (with the blessings of the Jathedars, SGPC President and Education Minister of SAD Government and by the Dharam Parchar Committee) then what intellectual power they have to evaluate blasphemous work in the publications of other Sikh and non-Sikh researchers and writers.

Gurbakhsh Singh Kala Afghana has been summoned at Akal Takht by its Jathedar to clarify the blasphemous work reported in his series of books. It is the same Jathedar, Bhai Sahib Bhai Joginder Singh Vedanti, who has reprinted Gurbilas Patshahi 6 [8] without criticizing the misinformation and unscientific and illogical stories, which go against the Nanakian Philosophy and basic principles of Sikhism. It were critical writings of Gurbakhsh Singh Kala Afghana that lead the SGPC recalling that book. We understand that someone has reprinted it without laudatory comments by the scholars mentioned above.


Solution
The Institute For Understanding Sikhism (IUS) stresses the need of an Advisory Committee comprising of Sikhs expert in various fields of Natural and Physical Sciences, Astronomy/Cosmology, Medicine, Philosophy, Psychology, History, Languages, Administration, Laws, etc. and each expert of these fields should be well-versed in Gurbani. They are not necessarily to be eminent Sikhs or Sikh theologians since all of them have been tested already. These experts should be unbiased, having open-mind and scientific temper, and free from allegiance to any political organization; and should be representing various countries of the world since the Sikhs are living all over the world now.

The IUS is already working on these lines and has an Editorial Board having members, expert in some of the above disciplines. The IUS also considers that Nanakian Philosophy, incorporated in the Aad Guru Granth Sahib after authentication by Guru Arjan and Guru Gobind Singh, is original and unique, and has universal acceptability. Therefore Nanakian Philosophy, science and logic should be taken as the touchstones to find out the truth in the publication of Gurbakhsh Singh Kala Afghana along with all the publications printed and reproduced by the SGPC by this new Advisory Committee yet to be formulated but not by any already existing Dharam Parchar Committee or any other Advisory Committee. After this task they should turn towards all those writings published during 18th and 19th centuries listed above. After this a big task of writing of integrated and comprehensive theology of Sikhism for the humanity is waiting for them.

Prof Devinder Singh Chahal, PhD
Institute for Understanding Sikhism
4418 Martin Plouffe, Laval, Quebec, Canada H7W 5L9
E-mail: Sikhism@canada.com

References
1. Chahal, D. S. 2002. Nanakian Philosophy – The Term Defined. Understanding Sikhism Res. J. 4 (2): 17-22.
2. Mehboob, Harinder Singh. 1988. Sehjae Rachio Khalsa (Punjabi). Published by the Author. Khalsa College, Garhdiwala, Hoshiarpur.
3. Nabha, Bhai Sahib Bhai Kahn Singh. 1996 (5th ed.). Gurmat Martand (Punjabi). Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, Amritsar.
4. Oberoi, Harjot. 1994. The Construction of Religious Boundaries. Oxford University Press, Delhi.
5. Padam, Pyara Singh. 1984 (3rd ed.). Rehit Namae (Punjabi). Kalam Mandar, Lower Mall, Patiala.
6. Singh, Ganda. 1985. Hukmnamae (in Punjabi). Punjabi University, Patiala.
7. Singh, Karam. 1979 (Reprint). Katik kae Vaisakh (Punjabi). Lahore Bookshop, Ludhiana.
8. Vedanti, Giani Joginder Singh and Singh, Dr Amarjit. 1998. Gur Bilas Patshahi 6 (in Punjabi). Dharam Parchar Committee, Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, Amritsar.




 
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 13-Dec-2004, 19:42 PM
drkhalsa's Avatar drkhalsa drkhalsa is offline
 
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Re: Misrepresentation of Gurbani and the Sikh religion by vested interets

Yeas It is indeed very excellent and more distinct thing about it is that it is also providing something in line of how to solve the problem we are facing
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Old 13-Dec-2004, 21:42 PM
vijaydeep Singh's Avatar vijaydeep Singh vijaydeep Singh is offline
 
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Re: Misrepresentation of Gurbani and the Sikh religion by vested interets

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das thank you all for genunine views.

Hindutva people have been mis quting Holy Guru Granth Sahib Ji too.

It was Arya Samajis who were making fun of ultimate Truth of Adi Guru Granth Sahib ji,Which made Prof Sahib Singh Ji to write a Tikka(correct Explantion of Darbar Shib Ji) .Kindly read his Sad Sateek.

So far as Dasham Granth or Sarbloh Granth Is concerned we have copies which are standardies(as In Adi Guru Darbar we have Damdami beer).And thier correct explanation.

Das has seen the work of Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghan and to some extent Bhag Singh Ji of Ambala.They have a good logic.

But Faith and knowledge of other Faiths is also needed.

Das can say that Dasham Granth Ji and Sarb Loh Granth Ji are highly anti Hinduism and Anti Aurangzeeb type of Interpetation of Islam.

Das just want from all of you that kindly bring verse by verse which they feel is anti Sikh.Das by mercy of Akal is capable to give the correct interpetation.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191

Like for example,

Many people say about the verse of Dasham Granth
Ram Kath Jug Jug Atal Sabh/Har Koi Bhakhat Neet,
Surag Bas Raghubar kiya Sagli Puri Samet.

This means
Every one (allegeledly) saying daily that story of Rama is permanent for Ages(while truth is) That Rama and his towen is already gone out of world(Heavon).

So this prove that That lord Rama of hindu was not Atal or permanent.

This is what Salok Mahal 9 Says

Ram Gayo,Ravan Gayo,Jako Baho Parwar..

Ram has gone,Ravana has gone,Who had big family..

So As per School of Das,The two Granth Mention above are the weapon to destroy hinduism.

Das is a former Hindu and think that for the welfare of Hindus the sooner,the Better,hinduism must not remain.

The two Granth told by Guru Gobind Singh Ji are weapons,Which Khalsa will use to destroy Hindutva.

By Preaching Dasham Granth and Devi Worship allagedly in it,Hindutva people have dug there own idealogies grave.

Just see the two links below
http://sgpc.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPI..._Title=Sikhism
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191

Here kindly do not go on replys

And another topic at
http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/commun...&i=6381&t=6381

They will show how Sanatan Sikhs are fighting Hindutva.

As A Sikh Das say all Sikhs are justifeid by each and every mean they are using to prevent the idealogical attacks on Panth.This with due apology included Kala Afghana Sahib too.(as per das he is no averse to Panth but there is clash of Idealogy of Faith and Logic with him,He has no hidden Agenda like the heretics like Baba Bhaniyara but more problem with Kala Afghana Sahib is to do with presentation and tendency of scientist,who is more busy with inovations and descovery but off the mark ,when marketing of such descoveries to the user is to be done).

Faith is always bigger then logic.So did Dhanna Bhagat got Salvation.But hindutva will never get it as they neither have faith nor logic.

Das say that the two Graths he support for Das they are Das's means provided by Akal to him.

Das does not hate Hindus but wrong interpetation done by them of our religous scripture.Das realy feel like hate those so called Sikh likes say Nirnakaris or Radhswamis or other heretics(like Baba Bhaniari wale) who also do wrong interpetation of Gurmat.

Just instead of trying to put correct meaning often meanings are changed.In one Sakhi one person did not spell kaee but ke in shabad and its meaning was coming wrong.Gurudev did let him have service or sewa of sticks.

Just Bowing to Shri Guru Granth Ji is of not that use till faith and dignity of Gurbani and Khalsa is not understood and respected.Gurudev Made a Taksal just protect the proper meaning of Gurbani as he was aware that in futre we may have Hindutva people at one side and heretic Sikhs on the other to attempt to undo Great work of Gurmat.

Akal who statarted Panth,Will take care of own Creation.

Das is sorry if something wrong is said by Agyani like him(das).
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Old 02-Sep-2008, 03:37 AM
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Re: Misrepresentation of Gurbani and the Sikh religion by vested interets

vijaydeep ji,

When you said "But hindutva will never get it as they neither have faith nor logic," I thought -- this is thinking in the large. Good analysis.
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Old 02-Sep-2008, 06:38 AM
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Re: Misrepresentation of Gurbani and the Sikh religion by vested interets

Das does not hate Hindus but wrong interpetation done by them of our religous scripture.Das realy feel like hate those so called Sikh likes say Nirnakaris or Radhswamis or other heretics(like Baba Bhaniari wale) who also do wrong interpetation of Gurmat.( quote Vijaydeep Singh ji)

As it is said" Dogs bark the caravan goes on" No hating, listen to Guru in this context too
ਨੇਤ੍ਰਹੁ ਮੇਰਿਹੋ ਹਰਿ ਤੁਮ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਧਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਕੋਈ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਕੋਈ ਨਦਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿਆ ਏਹੁ ਵਿਸੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਤੁਮ ਦੇਖਦੇ ਏਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਨਦਰੀ ਆਇਆ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਬੁਝਿਆ ਜਾ ਵੇਖਾ ਹਰਿ ਇਕੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਏਹਿ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਅੰਧ ਸੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਦਿਬ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਹੋਈ
੩੬
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191
O mine yes, God has infused light in ye. Without the Lord, see ye not another, therefore. Save the Lord, see ye not any other. The Merciful Master-Lord alone is worthy of beholding. This entire world, which ye behold is the Lord's manifestation. God's image alone is seen in it. By Guru's grace, when I realise the reality, I perceive but one God. Without the Lord, there is not any other. Says Nanak, these eyes were blind, on meeting the True Guru, they have become omniscient.
ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ ਆਪਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਤੋੜੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇ ਸੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਏਕਸ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝਾਏ ੨੬
Himself creating mind and matter, the Creator subjects them to His command. The Lord enforces His order, He Himself sees all, Through the Guru, He makes some rare one know Him. He bursts his bonds, obtains emancipation and enshrines the Lord's Name in his mind. He, whom the Lord Himself makes holy, becomes so and fixes his attention on the One Lord. Says Nanak, God Himself is the Creator and Himself reveals His will.
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Old 02-Sep-2008, 12:09 PM
Harjas Kaur Khalsa's Avatar Harjas Kaur Khalsa Harjas Kaur Khalsa is offline
 
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Re: Misrepresentation of Gurbani and the Sikh religion by vested interets

Quote:
Hindutva people have been mis quting Holy Guru Granth Sahib Ji too.

It was Arya Samajis who were making fun of ultimate Truth of Adi Guru Granth Sahib ji,
First, if anyone is at all honest, it must be acknowledged that the meaning of the term, "Hindutva" is not the same as the meaning of the term Hindu. As Hindutva necessarily implies a POLITICAL organization, and as such it has a political orientation, world-view and agenda. The same is true of Arya Samaj which is a Britishized Hindu organization developed to cause divisions within Hindu religion as well as Sikh religion and is justifiably controversial and a political "Hindutva" organization as well.

What the average Sikh fails to realize is 1. no political organization on earth has the power to distort or malign Gurbani. Gurbani is rooted in the anehad Shabad. It is eternal truth. The POLITICAL responses among politicized "Sikh" organizations is also filled with as much political agenda as is radical Hindutva. And that NONE of these messages is a spiritual message.

What the average Sikh also fails to realize is that the interpretation of Sikhism is broader than the current politicized Tat Khalsa view, which is intolerant in the extreme, and itself has ostracized and condemned who you call as "intellectual" Kala Afghana. In equating every NON-Tat Khalsa Singh Sabha, SGPC interpretation of Gurbani as either "Hindutva" or hateful is to do a disservice to the heritage of Sikhism, which necessarily had a broader and more tolerant interpretation in the recent past, and a spiritual, yet sanatan message.

Regardless whether any individual Sikh agrees with or choose to believe in this sanatan Sikh worldview, it cannot be excised so easily from the history. The radical truth is, "Hindutva" is not the origination of the sanatan Sikh identity. The sanatan Sikh identity far predates the British invasion and is evident in the teachings of Prem Sumarag, Dasm Granth, Shri Guru Granth, Sau Sakhi, and even Vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji. It is evident in the carryover of Siddha Nath yoga techniques of piercing the chakrs and raising the surti to open dasm duar using technique of kechari mudra. This is straight up Siddha Nath yoga. And the carryover is the wide folk appeal of someone like Baba Balak Nath and the history of Sikh caretakers of his shrines in Punjab.

No organization is going to erode the historical evidence of a greater harmony and blending of customs and traditions between Sikhism and Hinduism which existed in the recent past by writing exaggerated and hateful diatribes against Hindus and Hindu religion to please extremists. All you are doing is dragging any tolerance and maturity of Sikh religion into the mud by such slanderous and hostile definitions of faith.

Quote:
Hindutva people have been mis quting Holy Guru Granth Sahib Ji too.
First of all, when did you become a brahmgyani with the right to declare who is and who is not misquoting Gurbani? The fact that Gurbani is a LIVING Jyot means that the interpretations are bound to have different meanings to different people. It's precisely this dictatorial authoritarianism and hateful despising of any other viewpoint which is causing modern Sikhism to resemble intolerant Wahabism. And in this regard the Sikhs are doing more harm to their "religion" than any Hindutva organization which isn't even interested in any spiritual message but in voting blocs.

Quote:
Das can say that Dasham Granth Ji and Sarb Loh Granth Ji are highly anti Hinduism
There are a lot more accomplished scholars even within Nihang Panth who would refute you. The biggest attack on Dasm Granth is that it is precisely the Hindu element, stories of avtaaras and devi which is resented. How a sectarian message of the traditional teachings of avtaaras and devi Chand/Durga gets changed into an anti-Hindu message may please the Tat Khalsa Singh Sabha element, but it remains wishful thinking on it's face. It is the Sarabakal Adishakti which is the very heart of the sarbloh bibek tradition and the worship of the shakti in sarbloh weapons which is the heart of Akali Nihang power and spirituality. Unfortunately, any truthful, unbiased interpretation must necessarily take into account that Adishakti is female enegy of bhaugati, or devi. It doesn't mean this is the SOLE interpretation, but it can't be denied as the most logical one, and one that has existed historical parrallel with Sikhism. You can't erase that fact simply because you "hate it."

Quote:
Das just want from all of you that kindly bring verse by verse which they feel is anti Sikh.
There is no artificial conflict in a sanatan interpretation being anti-Sikh, except by radically intolerant social forces that so despise the traditional sanatan Hindu tradition that it alone, by merely existing as a cultural phenomenon is considered antithetical to "Sikh" survival and must be denied and destroyed at all costs. Talk about fanaticism.

Quote:
This means
Every one (allegeledly) saying daily that story of Rama is permanent for Ages(while truth is) That Rama and his towen is already gone out of world(Heavon).

So this prove that That lord Rama of hindu was not Atal or permanent.
This fails to negate because it fails to account for the philosophical understanding that Raam as an avatar was both a physical being and descent from the ParamJyoti. Just as Guru Gobind Singh Ji's physical form has also long fallen to dust, the spiritual Jyoti which comes from the nirguna can never be destroyed because that aspect of His being as avtaara is merged in the Unborn Lord, so Raam is also part of the infinite Paramjyoti. These personalities are only forms of the One formless all-pervading Lord. These personalities and forms exist so people can have a perception of the God. Why so much despising of Ram? Didn't the beloved bhagat Kabir Ji love Raam? Didn't the beloved Vaishnava sants in Gurbani love Raam? So why now all of a sudden, despite the fact that in Gurbani alone, the name of the eternal imperishable nirgun Lord is called after the sarguna of Ram more than 8,000 times do people fail to distinguish as Gurbani does, between the form of Raam as a human being, and the avataar nature of Raam which is merged in the Divine Supreme and thus gives a sargun name to the unpronounceable?

Such a quote proves nothing at all about worthlessness of Raam, as every form of Guru was just as impermanent and no longer exists... yet we still bow to Gurji as Living Presence, as Shabad-Jyot in Shri Guru Granth Sahib, and recognize Him as merged in the Divine Uncreated Light.


Quote:
Ram Gayo,Ravan Gayo,Jako Baho Parwar..

Ram has gone,Ravana has gone,Who had big family..
So has Guru Gobind Singh Ji gone. But the Shabad-Jyot which pervaded Guruji's physical body is eternal. It alone can never die. This is our mukti. This is our boat of salvation. And according to Gurbani, the das avataaras, including Raam, also had this Divine Jyot as they are described in Gurbani as yuga avataars just like Guru Nanak Dev Ji. If the nirguna cannot save the world in different yugs, we would have no religion in the world at all, let alone one called "Sikhism" allegedly founded on the spiritual REALITY of Satguruji being merged in the Shabad-Jyot of the nirguna, which necessarily by definition also happens to mean avataar, or descent of the Light-Sound into the darkness of sansaara.

Quote:
So As per School of Das,The two Granth Mention above are the weapon to destroy hinduism.
How exactly would a short sighted misinterpretation have the power or desire to destroy the eternal and ancient Hindu faith? What kind of new version of Wahabi fanaticism paints Sikh religion's essential holy books and spiritual teachings as "intending to destroy Hindu religion?" How childishly outrageous. Talk about extremist fanaticism. Seriously just listen to yourselves. There is no political Hindutva in the world who can do you as much harm as your doing to yourselves with these profoundly immature and extreme interpretations of Guru's loving bani.

WHY would Gurubani want to destroy anything except our own inner demons? Sikhism is NOT some jihadi religion of destroying false faiths which it hates and despises. That is absolutely the death of the Sikh message.


Quote:
Das is a former Hindu and think that for the welfare of Hindus the sooner,the Better,hinduism must not remain.

The two Granth told by Guru Gobind Singh Ji are weapons,Which Khalsa will use to destroy Hindutva.

By Preaching Dasham Granth and Devi Worship allagedly in it,Hindutva people have dug there own idealogies grave.
I think there are a lot of men who have tremendous fear of the power of the Divine feminine and think to eradicate and destroy what is a part of themselves. Any depth spiritual work must necessarily be about balancing opposites, not destroying or subjugating the feminine nature. I really do wish Sikhs would stop trying to Islamify Gursikhi and it's sanatan message of balance, tolerance and sincere spirituality.

Destroying Hinduism? What a ridiculous Sikh world-view. And you are in the minority and wonder why such things as government sponsored gallugharas occur to wipe out militant fanaticism and death threats and violent talk against the Indian state and innocent Hindu's. This sounds worse than any missionary. It sounds like rebirth of the Moghuls. Talk like this will surely lead to conflicts. Stop now. Be responsible. Don't preach hate. And don't create the future of Sikh destruction by such outrageous and extreme fanatical talk. Think of the children and think of the bloodbaths which have already occured. We have a responsibility to promote wisdom, maturity, harmony, healing and peace. I would be embarrassed to promote such hostility, intolerance and violence as a valid and believable interpretation of Guruji's spiritual message. Why don't you destroy what is fanatical in yourselves and try to be loving and accepting to ordinary Hindu people (who aren't politicians) as a HUMBLE and spiritual person would. Do seva for your Hindu neighbors. Philosophies of hate, sectarianism and thinly-veiled violence are bringing nothing but grief into this world. We desperately need to counterbalance a hypermasculinized Islamified monotheistic anti-female God with a Divine female energy which cherishes life and protects the innocent from harm, with the love of Divine Mother.


I praise and bless the Divine for the truly loving and pure Holy Mata Shakti. The unbalanced male energies always become torturers and haters of the world. I fear for all of you who hold these beliefs, in the name of Sikh religion.

Quote:
As A Sikh Das say all Sikhs are justified by each and every mean they are using to prevent the idealogical attacks on Panth.
Yes, I suppose you can start with blowing yourselves up to prevent anyone having an opinion which you consider an "ideological attack." Then after the fanatics are all dead and gone, the more moderate people could start building bridges of healing, reconciliation, and forgiveness between Sikh and Hindu communities which have both suffered far too long and begin to be real neighbors.

I'm sorry veerji, this is just extremist fanaticism. Violence by any means justified against a belief system is outrageously irresponsible to promote. Isn't this how the Air India 182 got blown up? What on earth are people teaching Sikh children? You keep following this destructive preaching, and just like Al Qaeda, the whole world will hate the Sikhs and the fearful government overreaction and violence of the 1980's and 1990's will begin anew. Is that what you want for the future of Sikhi? Simranjit Singh Mann shouting Pakistan Zindabad. Babbar Khalsa assassinating sanatan dera leaders. Planes being hijacked and blown up? And another gallughara which slaughters and maims the innocent in retaliation for irresponsible messages of hate?


My God, please stop. Do japa of Naams of Love with bhakti in your heart instead. Pray for understanding and world peace. I beg you. If religion can't teach you compassion and love and tolerance, please stop being religious and hurting spiritual teaching in the name of personal hate.
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Old 02-Sep-2008, 14:47 PM
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Re: Misrepresentation of Gurbani and the Sikh religion by vested interets

ON WHOM KABIR JI MEDITATES, ANSWER IN KABIR JI”S OWN WORDS, SO BELIEVE HIM ONLY

People say:
Nਗਉੜੀ ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੀਅ ਜੋਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਤ ਨੰਦੁ ਬਹੁ ਥਾਕੋ ਰੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਹੇਤਿ ਅਵਤਾਰੁ ਲੀਓ ਹੈ ਭਾਗੁ ਬਡੋ ਬਪੁਰਾ ਕੋ ਰੇ
Gauri. Wandering through eighty-four lakhs of animate existences Krishans adoptive father, Nand, was greatly worn-out. Because of his devotion Krishan became incarnate in his house. Great was the good fortune of the poor man.
ਜੀਅ ਜੋਨਿ ਮਹਿ = ਜੀਵਾਂਦੀਆਂ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚਭ੍ਰਮਤ = ਭਟਕਦਾਰੇ = ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਭਗਤਿ ਹੇਤਿ = ਭਗਤੀ ਦੀ ਖ਼ਾਤਰ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰੁੱਠ ਕੇਅਵਤਾਰੁ = ਜਨਮਬਪੁਰਾ ਕੋ = ਵਿਚਾਰੇ ਦਾ

ਹੇਭਾਈ! (ਤੁਸੀ ਆਖਦੇ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਜਦੋਂ) ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਭਟਕ ਭਟਕ ਕੇਨੰਦ ਬਹੁਤ ਥੱਕ ਗਿਆ (ਤੇ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜਨਮ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਤਾਂ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀਕੀਤੀ), ਉਸ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਹੋ ਕੇ (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਘਰ) ਜਨਮ ਲਿਆ, ਉਸਵਿਚਾਰੇ ਨੰਦ ਦੀ ਬੜੀ ਕਿਸਮਤ ਜਾਗੀ
KABIR JI QUESTIONS THOSE WHO CALL” NAND” FATHER OF GOD
ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਜੁ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਨੰਦ ਕੋ ਨੰਦਨੁ ਨੰਦ ਸੁ ਨੰਦਨੁ ਕਾ ਕੋ ਰੇ ਧਰਨਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਦਸੋ ਦਿਸ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਬ ਇਹੁ ਨੰਦੁ ਕਹਾ ਥੋ ਰੇ ਰਹਾਉ
You say that Krishan was Nand's son, whose son was that Nand himself? When there were no earth, firmament and ten directions, where was this Nand then? Pause.
ਜੁ = ਜਿਹੜੀ ਇਹ ਗੱਲਨੰਦਨੁ = ਪੁੱਤਰਨੰਦ = ਇਹ ਗੋਕਲ ਦਾ ਇਕ ਗੁਆਲਾ ਸੀ, ਇਸ ਦੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਜਸ਼ੋਧਾਸੀਜਦੋਂ ਕੰਸ ਆਪਣੀ ਭੈਣ ਦੇਵਕੀ ਦੇ ਘਰ ਨਵੇਂ ਜਨਮੇ ਬਾਲ-ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਮਾਰਨਾਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਸੀ ਤਾਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਪਿਤਾ ਵਸੂਦੇਵ ਨੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮਥਰਾ ਤੋਂ ਰਾਤੋ ਰਾਤ ਲੈ
ਜਾ ਕੇ ਨੰਦ ਦੇ ਹਵਾਲੇ ਕੀਤਾ ਸੀਨੰਦ ਤੇ ਜਸ਼ੋਧਾਂ ਨੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਪਾਲਿਆ ਸੀ।।ਸੁ = ਉਹਕਾ ਕੋ = ਕਿਸ ਦਾ? ਧਰਨਿ = ਧਰਤੀਦਸੋ ਦਿਸ = ਦਸੇ ਪਾਸੇ, (ਭਾਵ, ਇਹ ਸਾਰਾਜਗਤ)ਰਹਾਉ

ਪਰ, ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਤੁਸੀ ਜੋ ਇਹ ਆਖਦੇ ਹੋ ਕਿ (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੰਦ ਦੇ ਘਰ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਲੈ ਕੇ) ਨੰਦ ਦਾਪੁੱਤਰ ਬਣਿਆ, (ਇਹ ਦੱਸੋ ਕਿ) ਉਹ ਨੰਦ ਕਿਸ ਦਾ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਸੀ? ਤੇ ਜਦੋਂ ਨਾਹ ਇਹ ਧਰਤੀਅਤੇ ਨਾਹ ਅਕਾਸ਼ ਸੀ, ਤਦੋਂ ਇਹ ਨੰਦ (ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਤੁਸੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਪਿਓ ਆਖ ਰਹੇ ਹੋ)ਕਿਥੇ ਸੀਰਹਾਉ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191
HERE KABIR JI MAKES CLEARS ALL DOUBTS ABOUT WHOM HE MEDITATES
ਸੰਕਟਿਨਹੀਪਰੈਜੋਨਿਨਹੀਆਵੈਨਾਮੁਨਿਰੰਜਨਜਾਕੋਰੇ ਕਬੀਰਕੋਸੁਆਮੀਐਸੋਠਾਕੁਰੁਜਾਕੈਮਾਈਬਾਪੋਰੇ੧੯੭੦
He whose Name is the Immaculate Lord falls not in trouble and undergoes not birth.Kabir's Master is such a Lord, who has neither mother, nor father.

ਸੰਕਟਿ = ਸੰਕਟ ਵਿਚ, ਦੁੱਖ ਵਿਚਨਿਰੰਜਨ = ਅੰਜਨ-ਰਹਿਤ, ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਵ ਤੋਂ ਉਤਾਂਹ

ਹੇਭਾਈ! (ਅਸਲ ਗੱਲ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜਿਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ) ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ (ਭਾਵ, ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਦੇਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਅਸਰ ਹੇਠ ਨਹੀਂ ਆ ਸਕਦਾ), ਉਹ ਜੂਨ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਉਂਦਾ, ਉਹ (ਜੰਮਣ ਮਰਨ ਦੇ)ਦੁੱਖ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾਕਬੀਰ ਦਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ (ਸਾਰੇ ਜਗਤ ਦਾ) ਪਾਲਣਹਾਰ ਐਸਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦੀਨਾ ਕੋਈ ਮਾਂ ਹੈ, ਤੇ ਨਾ ਪਿਓ੧੯੭੦ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦਾ ਭਾਵ: ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਸਾਰੇ ਜਗਤ ਨੂੰਰਚਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਖੇਲ ਨੂੰ ਉਹ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਬਣਾਉਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ; ਉਹ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਵਿਚਨਹੀਂ ਆਉਂਦਾ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਮਾਂ-ਪਿਉ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈਗੋਕਲ ਦੇ ਗੁਆਲੇ ਨੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾਪਿਉ ਆਖਣਾ ਵੱਡੀ ਭੁੱਲ ਹੈ੭੦
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191

BE AWARE OF FALSE CLAIMS.
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Old 02-Sep-2008, 20:31 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Misrepresentation of Gurbani and the Sikh religion by vested interets

quoted material: My God, please stop. Do japa of Naams of Love with bhakti in your heart instead. Pray for understanding and world peace. I beg you. If religion can't teach you compassion and love and tolerance, please stop being religious and hurting spiritual teaching in the name of personal hate. end of quoted material.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191

Harjas Ji, The time has come for this to end. When individuals disagree with your point of view this in no way suggests fanaticism or the promotion of hatred. An infraction has been issued.

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Old 02-Sep-2008, 22:41 PM
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Re: Misrepresentation of Gurbani and the Sikh religion by vested interets

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Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=1191
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