The Entire Raag Mala: The Last 2 Parts Missing?

Please elaborate. Which aspects need more work? What still convinces you of the authenticity of the ragmala? Please can you provide proof? I am genuinely interested as always keen to learn.

 
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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Though i am not after only to prove ragmala right . But for the proper handling this issue needs to understand the system of Indian Classical Music.
First thing put by Giani Gurdit Singh an interview of a musician to show that rag mala has no ralavance which is tried to encounter by Ragi Balbir Singh
A group of Ragi have a kirtan darbar based on ragas of Ragmala in Jawaddi .they say that the remaining raga are for the bani which is not covered under different rags of Shri Guru Grant Sahib ji.
I have very few hints which are necessary to be cleared that the Swrup of Ragas fixed by rag Nirnayak Commitee Jawddi Taksal give the notations which are not perhaps according to ragmala. You will astonish to know that there is no clear guidelines for Sikh Ragis how the different Rags should be sung because there are differences in Indian Classical Music too. So for the first time in this century some swru of Ragas are formed which were based upon the traditional swrups sung by Ragis from very long time . This is the real picture how the believers of Rag mala follow it.
So all the happening and the systems must necessary to answer the questions that what is the actual swrup of Gumat Sangeet and where Ragmala actually stands in the actual practices of Sikhs.
The other strange thing i came to know when Giani Gurdit Singh was asked that if the Bir coated by you have Ragmala than why you coat them. He give the answer that Giani Joginder Singh Vadanti who was Jathedar Akal Takhat when he apologise before Akal Takhat , was with me at that time and i have given pictures he is not ready to speak and what i in this condition of ill health can do. This is one seen of picture may be right may be wrong . Now one party is saying about the Birs without Ragmala and the other party is saying the same Bir are with ragmala what can you and me conclude. So all mistry should be put before evrybody because it is not the age in which we can believe on only the words of the other ones without waching the things entirly. There are so many things which are to be studied

harman deep ji

There is not a doubt in my mind that all of us need to learn more about the classical forms of Indian music. And most of us can do a better job to practice what we know.

If raagmala is part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, then it must be considered gurbani, the Guru's bani. That poses a problem. Primary source evidence that is needed to resolve this problem is either missing or suspected to have been destroyed. Therefore the only sensible conclusion can be that the status of raagmala as gurbani must be questioned.

Yes - the original Damdami bir has gone missing and we don't know if the raagmala was included. And Madan Singh ji makes an excellent point in response to this observation. IT DOESN'T MATTER ON THE BASIS OF LOGIC ALONE.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/discourses-in-english/6994-entire-raag-mala-last-2-parts.html

The mundavani and saloka seal the Guru Granth, and not because it is argued they are placed at the end. This is a common error of thinking. As if Nanak 10 sealed the granth and then changed his mind. The mundavani and saloka are not there as a back wall to a house and the architect decided to construct an addition a few years later to make room for more thought.

They the mundavani and saloka seal the Guru Granth as a matter of gurmat.

There is even a case of one hand-written swaroop which ends before raagmala with "Eh bhog Sri Aad Giranth jee hai". If you zoom in on the page you will be able to see it in the image.

Is it logical or likely that Guru Gobind Singh would have added an entire section to the end of the Guru Granth for the purpose of introducing a raag system that is completely different from the system in which Sri Guru Granth is constructed - without any explanation? This again is very unlikely. It would suggest that either he was unaware of the raag system of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, or was stirring up confusion while indulging in an academic exercise.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6994

Another question that falls into the category of logical reservations. If Nanak 10 sealed the granth, then who dared to add to it?

Is anyone prepared to say that it is the writing of our Gurus, or a sant, bhat or bhagat as approved by Guru Gobind Singh?? Was there any notation anywhere or even an oral tradition coming from his contemporaries that tells us that he wrote it?

My last question should clarify why I am skeptical of sources that you have cited.

harman deep singh ji

Your above comment is the premise of those who need to include the raagmala as part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. From this premise all of the other justifications and arguments that raagmala is part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji gain their steam.

A simple objection can be made in return. The premise would make sense if Sri
Guru Granth Sahib were written to be a sourcebook of Indian classical music for musicians. It is not. It was written to be a book of spiritual enlightenment, and it was declared our Guru by Nanak X. Guru maneyo granth!

As Madan Singh points out - there are several raag systems in Indian classical music. The raag structure of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is one. The raagmala presents another. If raagmala were needed to complete the study of raags, then why not also add additional chapters to Guru Granth Sahib to complete the picture?

Satikar yog Narayan Jot KAUR JI

Waheguru Ji Ka KhalsA Wahegurur
One thing you and Madan Singh Ji forgotten that Bani Mundawani have two shaloks of Mahala 5 . Why are you calling Mundawani and shalok when both of these shabds / shloks are part of mundawni, Guru ji is Sovereign. Guru ji can add three shaloks may four in Mundawani.So there is no shalok after Mundawani. This thing i hear from Gurtej Singh IAS.
The second thing which i said flow over your head and you seems to helpless to understand what i said.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6994
What is your answer to Ragi Balveer Singh ji when they are singing gurbani on dunis of Ragmala Rags.
About above two things you are neither try to understand and all is flown over your hear. Whenever you understand what i am saying than you will think what is your position in this regard
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=6994
Veer Vijaydeep Singh ji in your research please study all these things which are very much necessary.
Harmandeep Singh

Truly I am satisfied that you see Sri Guru Granth Sahib as above all "sovereign." Most of the time the question of raagmala - among some other questionable controversies -- is part of a planned attack on Guruji.

To conclude: Nothing flew over my head Harman ji. Sometimes I simply choose not to address points raised. I have never been competitive enough or felt a deep need to mow down a forest of issues in any given discussion. Basically I have said all I care to say at this time. I have contended with several of the core issues in the controversy.

The Sikh Rehat Maryada summs up all that is required of a Sikh with respect to the entire Raagmala controversy. No reference is made to any missing portions. Hence a discussion of any missing parts is purely academic and not central to the practice of Sikhism. The context for this passage is recitation of Akand Path, and the sentence in parentheses gives the sole requirement regarding Raagmala. See the relevant content in bold font.

"The reading of the whole Guru Granth Sahib (intermittent or non-stop) may be concluded with the reading of the Mundawani or the Rag Mala according to the convention traditionally observed at the concerned place. (Since there is a difference of opinion within the Panth on this issue, nobody should dare to write or print a copy of the Guru Granth Sahib excluding the Rag Mala). Thereafter, after reciting the Anand Sahib, the Ardas of the conclusion of the reading should be offered and the sacred pudding (Karah Parshad) distributed."

The Sikh Rehat Maryada does not subscribe to the notion that Raagmala is Gurbani. Instead SRM acknowledges the fact that there is a controversy thus in deference to the controversy requires Raagmala be part of each copy of Guru Granth Sahib.