A Fighter Returns from the Desert to Speak with You If You Would Speak with Him

Dear helgasdogs,
The basic philosphy is to fall in with the masses and flow. And if the flow is against your belief - you accept it - and enjoy it. I hope I have not oversimplified the belief.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/controversies/33523-fighter-returns-desert-speak-you-if.html

Just for information I have not sucessfully mastered Sikhism to dabble and follow other philophies - it is a tall order. I have a lot of respect for our Gurus who went through a lot of rough times and cruel regimes of their time. Some of them gave their life to make sure that all the people could have the freedom to practice their own beliefs - even if they did not follow those beliefs themselves. I guess that means for your belief too.

However one can only take so much abuse before deciding to put an end to the situation - which our tenth Guru did to Moslem cruelty and unfairness in the latter part of their rule. The basic belief of the Gurus was to seek truth - this has far reaching implications on the nature of the people who follow the teachings - as one questions oneself at every juncture and if abused by others one questions them. The direction of their approach is taken from fairness to all and neither abuse others or be abused.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33523

So I guess you can see that it would be difficult for Sikhs to follow mass mentality and give in to all around you - Sikhs have been trying to get out of that rut for the last 500-600 years. Being 2% of India's population there is a tendency to be ram rolled into the mass majority but in the time of Guru Nanak he was the only one to start it all (so lot less than 2%).
By sifting truth (he knew the truth) from religions of the day he convinced both Hindus and Moslems that Truth is the direction and he is revered by both communities even today. Today Hindus want us to be part of them and so do Moslems.

Present day Sikh movement, I think, is struggling to find its way again by getting out of the oppression and fear of the uneducated masses used by the mafia state as 'their response' of fairness.
By moving out into other countries where freedom is appreciated they hope that will lead to a commonwealth of Sikhs that will be beamed to whole of the world.

May be you can explain how your approach can better that?

 
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Dear davinder,

'Go with the flow, end up in the sewer,' my friend.

You speak two words dear to my heart: 'truth' and 'freedom.' A Fremen sacrifices neither for the sake of his mission. A Fremen is mission-oriented: He does not 'fall in with the masses' as if he were a an ancient Roman citizen cheering in the coliseum out of fear of being labelled 'different,' nor does he merely 'flow with the world,' like a passive Buddhist, not trying to change anything. Of course he tries to change the world! How can one seek truth by merely 'flowing with the masses'? How can one be free if one merely 'falls in with the masses'?

I respect you Sikhs for the oppression you have resisted, I honour your suffering and your constancy to your best understanding of the One ('God'). And, I honour your Gurus for their sacrifices, in reference to Jesus' words recorded in John 15:13, 'Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.' You are welcoming to me and willing to fight online in a respectful and honourable manner. You even call me 'dear' as an alien to your community who does not quite grasp the nuance of your 'ji.'

The words 'truthful' and 'freedom-loving' are not just meant as adjectives. Fremenism as a discipline is the discipline of truthful freedom, one that your Gurus would have respected and one that is not incompatible with all I know of Sikhism; so, I give two points:

(a) Does Sikhism deny that man is made in the image of the Creator and, therefore, sacred and above all other forms of created existence? If so, Sikhism contains a fatal flaw. If not, Sikhism is not opposed to Fremenism.

(b) Does Sikhism teach submission to the will of the One ('God')? If not, Sikhism contains a fatal flaw. If so, Sikhism is not opposed to Fremenism.

Just as your Gurus, and by extended implication, you, fight also for my beliefs, I, as a Catholic Fremen fight for your freedom and your right to seek the truth also--and, to whatever degree Sikhism embodies Truth, that is how hard I shall fight for it. But, part of fighting is ecumenical dialogue, to achieve mutual understanding that will melt away the fat of our respective philosophies making our metaphysiques, our fighting minds, more like each other, more ready for combat against malicious hostiles rather than against allies in good faith.

The approach I advocate is only touched on here, by me. To get deeper I must direct your attention towards the philosophy of Classical Humanism, derived from Classical Greece and the Catholic ministry of Jesus Christ, which, taken together, is the engine that powered Europe's progress and allowed it to dominate the world. You speak (or, at least, write) English because Classical Humanism allowed Europe, dominated by the English powers, to conquer the world--including the India that has oppressed you. The great minds of Classical Humanism are not exclusively European; there have been contributions by the Chinese, by the Indians, by the Muslims, and so forth, so, Classical Humanism represents the treasure house and the arsenal of Ideas by which we reorder our minds, by which we reorder our Universe. Knowledge is power, as you must know.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33523

The Sikhs are numerically tiny, and, if they do not find a good way to fight they will be mere flotsam on the world-ocean, tossed this way and that purposelessly amidst the wars between the numerically greater powers. If the contemporary Sikh movement wishes power, however, it will seek the knowledge of Classical Humanism. 2% of India can transform India. A Sikh commonwealth that partakes of the wisdom of the truth of the world's knowledge-of-principle, embodied in both Classical Art and in principled Science, can transform the world. Joyful suffering amidst flow-submission to the will of the One will ease the passage of the mind out of the womb of death and into the lighted expanse of the desert of Truth and Victory. I recommend this article above all:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33523

Carl Gauss' Fundamental Theorem of Algebra
By Bruce Director
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/edu...d_bmd0402.html

This, if you work through it, will give you insight into the nature of Principle, upon which all Classical Humanism is founded, and which is our only salvation as a species from the presently onrushing Apocalypse of economic and social breakdown.

If I have not adequately answered your question, please tell me and I will try harder.

Yours,

'h'

Sikhism does not teach this. The creator is Self-existent and without form, Nirgun, and therefore man is not "made" in the image of the creator. Therefore the creator has no image. The creator is imminent and pervades all creation. Therefore, creator's image is found in each and every creature. All creation is sacred and all creation is connected through the divine self. Sikhism is not opposed to any path or adherancei that is dharam (in rigtheousness) , and would not disrespect any religion that was.

Dear spnadmin,

So, I gather, then, that you would give your life to 'righteously' defend the life of a cockroach, or a tree, since all are sacred?

Yours,

'h'

Give your question more thought. I was very thoughtful when I gave my answer, picking out only those comments that required some clarification.

The fact is that Sikhs are exhorted to "use their minds" as well as their moral natures to solve problems on the planet and to be engaged. Common sense also kicks in. How does the management of cockroaches as a health issue fit into a larger picture of concern for the environment might be a better way to think about things. Mass destruction of cockroaches may or may not have some justification, but do we want to spend time on this issue, using it as a case example for purposes of debate?

I can't speak for the cockroach problem, thought it is clear that we are not Buddhists. For you I will do some research about this. The question never came up before.

On the other hand, there are many threads here that do discuss Sikhi as a "green" religion. There is content on the question of trees and wildlife.

Dear spnadmin,

I assure you that my question was thoughtful. Your answer to it is crucial with regards to Sikhism's ability to successfully contribute to the survival of human civilisation.

Cockroaches and health issues are not what I asked about, I asked whether humans have a special ranking in the world, or, are they merely another form of life, as the Deep Ecologists insist? Why did the One ('God') create humans at all?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33523

Yours,

'h'

Thanks for your clarification. It is helpful. We do have threads on the creation of humans, which are very interesting. The subject has many subtleties to it.

Dear spnadmin,

I anticipate your reply to my question with hope.

Yours,

'h'

helgasdogs ji

It would be better if other forum members had their opportunity to chime in on the discussion. I appreciate your interest and will continue to check in on the thread to see whether I need to contribute more.