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Inter-Religious Marriages in Gurdwaras

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 20-Oct-2010, 20:36 PM
Soul_jyot's Avatar Soul_jyot Soul_jyot is offline
 
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Inter-Religious Marriages in Gurdwaras

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Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras

Sikh Reht Maryada

THE CODE OF SIKH CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS
http://www.sgpc.net/sikhism/anand-sanskar.asp

Anand Sanskar : (Sikh Matrimonial Ceremony and Conventions)

(b) A Sikh's daughter must be married to a Sikh.
(k) Persons professing faiths other than the Sikh faith cannot be joined in wedlock by the Anand Karaj ceremony.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/controversies/32848-inter-religious-marriages-in-gurdwaras.html





Translation:

Ik Ongkar Sri Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, Sri Amritsar
Giani Joginder Singh, Jethadar

Date: 16-8-2007

Anand Sanskar"Marriage Ceremony"

This is a message to all the Sikh Sangat that according to the Rehat Maryada only Sikh couples (male/female) can engage in the Anand Karaj Ceremony. If the couple or either one of them is not a Sikh, then they must embrace the Sikh faith.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32848

This includes that they must change their second name to Singh or Kaur in their official document (e.g. driving licence, identity card, passport) before the marriage.

(signed) (Joginder Singh)Jathedar




 
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 20-Oct-2010, 20:56 PM
Tejwant Singh's Avatar Tejwant Singh Tejwant Singh is offline
 
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Re: Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_jyot View Post
Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras



Translation:

Ik Ongkar Sri Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, Sri Amritsar
Giani Joginder Singh, Jethadar

Date: 16-8-2007

Anand Sanskar"Marriage Ceremony"

This is a message to all the Sikh Sangat that according to the Rehat Maryada only Sikh couples (male/female) can engage in the Anand Karaj Ceremony. If the couple or either one of them is not a Sikh, then they must embrace the Sikh faith.

This includes that they must change their second name to Singh or Kaur in their official document (e.g. driving licence, identity card, passport) before the marriage.

(signed) (Joginder Singh)Jathedar
Soul jyot ji,

Thanks for posting the hukumnaama from the Akaal takhat. Do you know if there is any exception for the Sindhis in some other Hukumnaamas? The reason I asked you this is because lots of Sindhis have Anand Karaj ceremonies and their names do not end with Singhs and Kaurs.

There are also famous Sindhis who do keertan and if I am not mistaken they have done the same in the Darbar Sahib.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh



Personally for me it is just one more futile thoughtless thing by the honchos who have the power
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 20-Oct-2010, 21:41 PM
kds1980's Avatar kds1980 kds1980 is offline
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Re: Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras

Quote:
Personally for me it is just one more futile thoughtless thing by the honchos who have the power
Tejwant singh ji

How is it futile,thoughtless? If a muslim boy is marrying sikh girl and they have no plan to follow sikhism then why to allow their marriage in Gurdwara.

I don't have problem with sindhi or other non sikh couple marrying in Gurdwara if they have faith in Guru granth sahib but one sikh and other non sikh is marrying with no intention to follow sikhism is mockery of Guru granth sahib and sikhism.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 20-Oct-2010, 22:59 PM
Tejwant Singh's Avatar Tejwant Singh Tejwant Singh is offline
 
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Re: Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras

Kanwarddep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Quote:
How is it futile,thoughtless? If a muslim boy is marrying sikh girl and they have no plan to follow sikhism then why to allow their marriage in Gurdwara.
I have no idea about their intentions. That is why the concept, meaning and other things should be taught like a course for one month for them. If after that it is found out that there is no plan to follow the Sikhi marg,then it is fine to refuse. The idea is to sow the seeds of Sikhi otherwise why would they have Anand karaj?

Quote:
I don't have problem with sindhi or other non sikh couple marrying in Gurdwara if they have faith in Guru granth sahib but one sikh and other non sikh is marrying with no intention to follow sikhism is mockery of Guru granth sahib and sikhism.
Kanwardeep Singh ji, here you are contradicting yourself from your above claim and the post is laced with double standards. How can one claim to have faith in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru when they are not going to live the Sikh way of life? What is the benchmark of determine that people in the second part of your post have faith in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but in the previous they do not.

I understand as you mentioned that many more non Sikhs are visiting gurdwaras, then ever before, then if that is true then ho do you know what their intentions are? They may visit a Hindu temple and a Muslim tombstone the same day and make this as one more mechanical ritual which Guru Nanak made us get rid of. the question arises, if they love Guru so much then why don't they become Sikhs, even Sehadhari Sikhs?

So, please elaborate your thought process in this double standard.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 21-Oct-2010, 01:15 AM
kds1980's Avatar kds1980 kds1980 is offline
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Re: Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras

Quote:
I have no idea about their intentions. That is why the concept, meaning and other things should be taught like a course for one month for them. If after that it is found out that there is no plan to follow the Sikhi marg,then it is fine to refuse. The idea is to sow the seeds of Sikhi otherwise why would they have Anand karaj?
Whenever a sikh Girl marry outside the faith ,mostly to muslim or Hindu then there 99.99% chance that she will follow her husband's faith.One don't need to be a psychic to know this
there are living ,walking examples everywhere.The marriage in Gurdwara is just to save the face of family, nothing more than that.

On the other when a sikh boy marry outside then when one cannot predict that the family will practice sikhism or not

Quote:
Kanwardeep Singh ji, here you are contradicting yourself from your above claim and the post is laced with double standards. How can one claim to have faith in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru when they are not going to live the Sikh way of life? What is the benchmark of determine that people in the second part of your post have faith in Sri Guru Granth Sahib but in the previous they do not.

I understand as you mentioned that many more non Sikhs are visiting gurdwaras, then ever before, then if that is true then ho do you know what their intentions are? They may visit a Hindu temple and a Muslim tombstone the same day and make this as one more mechanical ritual which Guru Nanak made us get rid of. the question arises, if they love Guru so much then why don't they become Sikhs, even Sehadhari Sikhs?
Could you please define What is the defination of sehajdhari? for many many Hindu's there is no such thing as sehajdhari.They very well know that neither turbaned sikhs will accept them as sikhs nor any Gurdwara will consider them as sikh,so they continue to call them hindu.If 2 non sikhs want to marry in Gurdwara then I find no reason other than their faith in Guru granth sahib.2 non sikhs will not have anand karaj just to save the face in the society.
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Old 21-Oct-2010, 02:08 AM
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Re: Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras

Moderation question.

It has been very difficult to follow this conversation and some of the difficulty revolves around one issue: how/why 2 non Sikhs would marry in a Gurdwara in the first place?

To make sense should someone state that nonkeshdhari/sehajdhari are not Sikhs.

Here is where I become confused
Quote:
Could you please define What is the defination of sehajdhari? for many many Hindu's there is no such thing as sehajdhari.They very well know that neither turbaned sikhs will accept them as sikhs nor any Gurdwara will consider them as sikh,so they continue to call them hindu.If 2 non sikhs want to marry in Gurdwara then I find no reason other than their faith in Guru granth sahib.2 non sikhs will not have anand karaj just to save the face in the society.
I confess I am not sure what is being assumed here. I also can't figure out if nonkeshdhari/sehajdhari are considered Hindus, by Hindus, by Sikhs or by both Hindus and Sikhs.

It could be that one Sikh and one non Sikh might want to marry in a Gurdwara. For example, a Hindu and a Sikh. But is someone assuming that a Hindu/Sikh relationship is the same as a Hindu/nonkeshdhari Sikh relationship.

Another related point. Is there the assumption that Akal Takht has forbidden Anand karaj to nonkeshdhari Sikhs, because AT is using the broader meaning of non-Sikh to include nonkeshdhari "Sikhs."

This must be very hard for many readers to follow. Next up then would be how to decide whether a couple planned to live in the Sikh Marg (Tejwant Singh ji) and consider all the important issues that crop up around that for an inter-faith couple and their sangat.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 21-Oct-2010, 02:22 AM
kds1980's Avatar kds1980 kds1980 is offline
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Re: Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras

Quote:
Moderation question.

It has been very difficult to follow this conversation and some of the difficulty revolves around one issue: how/why 2 non Sikhs would marry in a Gurdwara in the first place?

To make sense should someone state that nonkeshdhari/sehajdhari are not Sikhs.
I don't think here there is any discussion of keshdhari.

The answer to your other question is the same that why would non sikhs love to visit Gurdwara' s,kirtan ,gurbani and langar.similarly many non sikhs who regularly visit Gurdwara
may want to have an anand karaj

Quote:
It could be that one Sikh and one non Sikh might want to marry in a Gurdwara. For example, a Hindu and a Sikh. But is someone assuming that a Hindu/Sikh relationship is the same as a Hindu/nonkeshdhari Sikh relationship.

Another related point. Is there the assumption that Akal Takht has forbidden Anand karaj to nonkeshdhari Sikhs, because AT is using the broader meaning of non-Sikh to include nonkeshdhari "Sikhs."
I don't think akal takht has forbidden marriage of non keshdhari sikhs but I think DSGMC has policy against it.
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Old 21-Oct-2010, 02:29 AM
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Re: Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanwardeep Singh View Post
I don't think here there is any discussion of keshdhari.

The answer to your other question is the same that why would non sikhs love to visit Gurdwara' s,kirtan ,gurbani and langar.similarly many non sikhs who regularly visit Gurdwara
may want to have an anand karaj



I don't think akal takht has forbidden marriage of non keshdhari sikhs but I think DSGMC has policy against it.
This is helpful. Thank you. Something tells me that the boundaries for marriage in a Gurdwara may be more flexible in India than in the US. Anand karaj among 2 non-Sikhs IMHO is an almost zero occurrence in the US

The more current problem faced in the West is Anand karaj of 1 Sikh and 1 non-Sikh;

My observation depends on the assumption that we are not saying that sehajdhari/nonKeshdhari are non-Sikhs. Otherwise I am back to being confused.
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Old 21-Oct-2010, 03:19 AM
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Re: Inter-religious marriages in Gurdwaras

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Soul jyot Kaur Ji,

Thanks a lot for posting the Akaal Takht Hukamnama !
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32848
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32848

Sikh Rehat Maryada clearly states only a SIKH can get married to a SIKH !

If one or both the couple are not keshdhari then Giani Ji during SIKHYA given to the newly married couple - guides them to live the SIKH way of life, not to cut their hair from now on.

It is different story newly married couple follow the guidelines laid out to them or not.

Believe me i tried my best to get this implemented at our Gurduara Sahib ! it's a shame i was unable to convince everyone in the management.

Harjot Singh Pannu
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