UK sangat prevents beadbi at Grays Gurdwara

Soul_jyot · #1 (**permalink**) 18-Oct-2010, 19:17 PM

UK SANGAT PREVENTS BEADBI
AT GRAYS GURDWARA

UK SEWADARS | Published on October 17, 2010

GRAYS, ESSEX - On Saturday 16 October, at least 250 Gursikhs, which included men, women, children, young and old from across the UK, travelled to Grays Gurdwara to prevent the Beadbi of meat and alcohol being served on Gurdwara owned hall. On arrival, the Gurdwara committee was adamant that the party would go ahead. In the Khalsa spirit, the Sangat went to the proposed party hall and did Simran, Chaupai Sahib Paath and Kirtan to prevent any party from taken place. The family who had arranged the wedding party and the Gurdwara committee realised the party could not take place after seeing the sheer numbers of Sangat that were present for the peaceful protest.

The committee declined the Sangat’s request to come face to face with the Sangat and openly declare that they will not commit any sacrilege or allow anti-Gurmat activities in the future. After successfully preventing the wedding party from taken place, the Sangat went to the Darbar Hall where requests were repeated for the Committee to talk the Sangat openly. The committee refused to come in the public eye and instead agreed after some time that they would be prepared for private talks with a small delegation of Gursikhs in the committee room. Eight respected Gursikhs were chosen to speak to the committee. Before the delegation engaged in talks with the Committee, an Ardaas was performed and Guru Sahib blessed his Sikhs with the following Hukamnama on Ang 677:

ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਃ ੫ ||
ਸੋ ਕਤ ਡਰੈ ਜਿ ਖਸਮੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੈ ||
ਡਰਿ ਡਰਿ ਪਚੇ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਵੇਚਾਰੇ ||੧|| ਰਹਾਉ ||

Dhanaasaree, revealed by Fifth Guru:
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/controversies/32811-uk-sangat-prevents-beadbi-grays-gurdwara.html
One who contemplates his Lord and Master - why should he be afraid? The wretched self-willed manmukhs are ruined through fear and dread. ||1||Pause and Reflect||

The Gursikh delegation told the committee members in no uncertain terms that the party hall must be stopped, and explained the Akal Takhat Sahib Sandesh that requires no dancing, anti-Gurmat activities, or serving of meat or alcohol on any Gurdwara owned property. The committee said that although they agree with the Akal Takhat Sahib, however they were in no position to take a decision as their local community had approved the usage of the party hall.

After no resolution being reached, the Sangat present in the Darbar Hall unanimously decided that the Grays Gurdwara committee and local community will be given one month to confirm whether they will implement the Akal Takhat Sahib Sandesh and not allow any more parties in the future. If any future sacrilege occurs in the future, the Sangat agreed that they will come in greater numbers and respectfully take away all Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji’s Saroops and remove the Gurdwara Nishaan Sahib. The resolutions of the Sangat will be re-communicated to the Grays Gurdwara committee in an open letter, which will be made available to the wider Sangat.

The Sangat also resolved, and did Ardaas in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj, that each member of Sangat that had attended would personally take responsibility to ensure that their local Gurdwara Sahib complies with the Akal Takhat Sahib’s directives and would work peacefully towards preventing any beadbi. The Sangat were passionate that no form of sacrilege and violation of Gur Maryada will be tolerated and that are currently there are 14 or so other Gurdwara Sahibs in the UK, where meat and alcohol is served on Gurdwara owned premises.

Guru Jee gave the following Hukamnama (Ang 681):

ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
ਦੂਤ ਦੁਸਮਨ ਸਭਿ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਨਿਵਰਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ॥
ਜੋ ਜੋ ਤੇਰੇ ਭਗਤ ਦੁਖਾਏ ਓਹੁ ਤਤਕਾਲ ਤੁਮ ਮਾਰਾ ॥੧॥

Dhanaasaree, revealved by Fifth Guru:
All demons and enemies are eradicated by You, Lord; Your glory is manifest and radiant. Whoever harms Your devotees, You destroy in an instant. ||1||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

Throughout the protest, the Sangat maintained a peaceful presence, and was focused only on ensuring that Gur Maryada is abided by and that sacrilege of meat and alcohol being served on Gurdwara owned property is prevented. The Sangat was thankful to all Gurdwara Sahibs, organisations and Panthic jathebandis that had publicly supported this peaceful protest. The whole peaceful protest was filmed by Sikh TV and Sikh Channel and will be telecasted for the wider Sangat soon.

The Grays incident has galvanised the Sangat's spirit, determination and resolve to peacefully rid the curse of meat and alcohol in all UK Gurdwaras.This successful peaceful protest sends a strong warning to all individuals and Gurdwara committees that are or plan to allow anti-Gurmat activities on any Gurdwara owned or funded property in order to earn extra revenue that they immediately stop as the beloved Sikhs of the Guru never have and never will tolerate any violation of the Guru.

source:
http://www.panthic.org/articles/5299

Tejwant Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 19-Oct-2010, 00:07 AM

Soul Jyot ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

Guru Fateh.

I have a question. Was the Anand Karaj performed or not? It is a very difficult situation in which it is tough to find common ground. The culture and the religion are intermingled and it is difficult to separate them. I can understand about forbidding alcohol and meat in the Gurdwara but not to allow Bhangra or other dances is a bit off the edge in my opinion. The party house next door must have been built to have extra revenues for the Gurdwara which is not a bad thing.

I know many Sikh homes that have Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji parkash and also their bars are loaded with alcoholic drinks. They party at will. Many others who do not drink but eat meat and have the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji parkash, myself included.

So, the question comes, where do we draw the line? Is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji a mere book in paper form or is it the Shabad Guru in many forms like Cd's, at time lying on the floors of our vehicles, internet etc etc?

How far the bottle of Johnny Walker is appropriate from the paper form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

If this takes place then does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in paper form just become the idol to be worshipped?

In my opinion, if people have not Sikhi sprouting within then they become mere ritualistic and Anand Karaj, alcohol, meat dancing etc etc become more the social traditions rather than the spiritual ones.

We have had many weddings in our family in India, The US and Canada and no alcohol was served anywhere.

I would like to have input from others.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

spnadmin · #3 (**permalink**) 19-Oct-2010, 01:02 AM

Tejwant ji, Soul_jyot ji

This story is only a small part of the whole story. It is commonplace for any of the panthic.org outlets (sikhsangat, Global Sikh News, Voice of Sikhs, and some others) to publish supposed news accounts of how they have stopped a beadbi of the Guru. Large amounts of information are left out, giving the impression that the story contains all relevant details.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

I have actually been monitoring this story for a few days on various Internet sites. There is a lot more to it than meets the eye. For one thing, this particular organized protest is part of a greater campaign against a much larger number of gurdwaras that do have social halls which they rent out, not only to Sikhs but to other organizations and religions. These halls may not be attached to the gurdwara, or if they are attached, they are far from Darshan Sahib. The managing committees do depend on renting the halls for a variety of functions in order to raise revenue for the sangat.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

We should expect to see more so-called news stories about similar protests. As I said more than one gurdwara has been targeted. In fact, some Rangharia temples have also been targeted because they rent to Hindu sangats who are willing to pay for space to observe seasonal poojas and celebrations.

So there is a list. And as soon as an event is scheduled, the Internet venues are used to line up the protesters. The word "peaceful" is used as a sop. I wonder how peaceful it would be if the group decided to go ahead with their function and defied the protestors?

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/24345/38/

Naturally caution prevails because the London police have already put all of Sikh London on notice that if protests require additional police intervention, the sangat will have to bear the expense of extra police coverage.

findingmyway · #4 (**permalink**) 19-Oct-2010, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejwant Singh

I know many Sikh homes that have Sri Guru Granth Sahib parkash and also their bars are loaded with alcoholic drinks.

Alcohol is definitely forbidden by Guru Granth Sahib Ji so I don't feel it is appropriate to have it kept on the same premises as the Guru's bir. Alcohol changes they way you think and may cause behaviours that the person later regrets as it may cause disrespect to our Guru.

If your grandfather was against alcohol and lived with you, would you tell him sorry but I'm going to drink or have others drink anyway? If the answer is no then we should not be going against out Guru's wishes in my opinion.

If people choose to drink at different premises then that is their choice. However, a Gurdwara should not be promoting sales of alcohol on their premises IMHO.

spnadmin · #5 (**permalink**) 19-Oct-2010, 08:36 AM

findingmyway ji

I agree with all you say. But the question I am raising is why we should believe this story is completely true in the first place? Without knowing some background, I would take it at face value. But I do not trust anything published by the panthic.org outlets.

findingmyway · #6 (**permalink**) 19-Oct-2010, 19:52 PM

You are absolutely right!! I got carried away with my soapbox speil about alcohol as I see what it does to people all the time

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

As for the above case, the only sources I can find are related to panthic. There is a youtube video about the protest filmed during a Sikhchannel visit about the issue but the conversation is very 1 sided - i could not see the committee represented there so we only have 1 side of the story.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

There always seems to be some story or another relating to weddings. I remember when the Akal Takht edict came out saying that Anand Karaj's could only be performed in a Gurdwara, there was a group of youths in Bradford I think that went round to weddings outside the Gurdwara and stopped them. I don't remember there being any effort at diplomatic relations with the families concerned beforehand or any effort at educating the Granthi's and ensuring them of the sangat's support if they refused to carry out the ceremony outside of a Gurdwara but I may be wrong in this.

I also found on youtube, clips from several Gurdwara's around the country where alcohol is being served in parties in adjoining halls on the grounds. So the above story may well be true. When it comes to weddings, big money is involved so often committee's and granthis get swayed to accept which is why they don't speak out. This is partly our fault as a sangat as we rely too much on granthi's rather than learning Sikhi for ourselves. We also build big lavish Gurdwara's then struggle to keep them afloat as no-one wants to pay towards the high maintenance costs.

With reference to the above case, I have not been able to find out the whole story as I don't know anyone from that area but will keep asking around and if I hear anything I will write an update. Sometimes the action is justified, often things get reported out of proportion, sometimes its over zealous youth. Usually it's a combination of all of these factors!

spnadmin · #7 (**permalink**) 19-Oct-2010, 20:01 PM

findinmyway ji

Thanks for all the extra research you have done!!!!!!!! A lingering concern that I have is that Internet jathas have deputized themselves to police the state of Sikhi according to their whims, inclinations and understandings. They have in addition to a concern about alcohol which I share, a concern about meat. Meat is not kurehit. This shows they are without any concept of how to negotiate differences in a civil way. And I do not see why Ramgharias would need to be under scrutiny either.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

It worries me. It reminds me of the Roundhead movement in England in the 17th Century.

findingmyway · #8 (**permalink**) 19-Oct-2010, 20:19 PM

I agree. Their intentions may be good but they are approaching the whole issue in completely the wrong way. I wish Granthi's would take more of a stand but it's become a career more than seva and they don't always have the sangats support if they do recognise that something is wrong.

Rather than causing conflict and scaring people away, we should be focussing on education and encouraging people. The tactics used are often very intimidating.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

The meat issue concerns me a lot. It's scary how emphatic most people in the UK seem to be about about vegetarianism being part of Sikhi when it isn't. It's rammed down people's throats in Gurdwara's, at camps and on Sikh Channel. For many it causes them to lose interest as it feels like a law so they don't then pay attention to more important issues like alcohol use. You can't force people to change but you can show them another way so they have a choice

spnadmin · #9 (**permalink**) 19-Oct-2010, 20:29 PM

I need to be quiet for a while

but one more thing.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=32811

A parallel concern - by posting the starter article Soul_jyot ji has given is a perfect example - a concern about dishonesty of this type of coverage. When one wing of an organization appoints itself to organize a protest, and another wing of the same organization covers the protest, that is not journalism. It is self-promotion, a kind of press release.

There is something else I have noted. The "exclusive" interview or news story that appears only in a panthic venue. If I google to see if any other online press venue has a similar story, the search often comes up null. This goes to your point of not finding any independent way to verify the content.