'Submissive' does not mean Subservient!

Annie · #10 (**permalink**) 27-Aug-2011, 01:52 AM

Well, I am:
1. Flabbergasted
2. Finding it hard to believe that Calkaur is in fact a Kaur
3. So glad I am no longer Christian; and
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/christianity/36660-submissive-does-not-mean-subservient.html
4. Done wasting my time on this conversation.
*

calkaur · #11 (**permalink**) 27-Aug-2011, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mai Harinder Kaur

I am a Sikh. I am submissive to Akaal Purakh as revealed through Guru Sahibaan. Period.

As a Sikh, I would expect that you are fully submissive to your Akaal Purack as revealed through your Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Just as I would expect Christians to be fully submissive to their God as revealed to them through the Holy Bible.

calkaur · #12 (**permalink**) 27-Aug-2011, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annie

Well, I am:
1. Flabbergasted
2. Finding it hard to believe that Calkaur is in fact a Kaur
3. So glad I am no longer Christian; and
4. Done wasting my time on this conversation.

1. I'm not sure what you are so "flabbergasted" about. I tried my best to portray traditional Christian beliefs on this particular subject as accurately as possible.

2. "Kaur" is my birth and legal name. It has nothing to do with my post.

3. Yes, it is not an easy religion to follow, is it? I hope you find the truth you are seeking.

4. I won't wait for your response.

Peace to all.

Scarlet Pimpernel · #13 (**permalink**) 27-Aug-2011, 04:41 AM

Lionesses

Cal Kaur and Annie

1 Christianity is easy you don't even have to tie a turban
2 We are all brides.

3 There is only one Groom .

4 My wife wears the trousers.

5 But please don't tell anyone.

Ambarsaria · #14 (**permalink**) 27-Aug-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calkaur

1. I'm not sure what you are so "flabbergasted" about. I tried my best to portray traditional Christian beliefs on this particular subject as accurately as possible.

2. "Kaur" is my birth and legal name. It has nothing to do with my post.

3. Yes, it is not an easy religion to follow, is it? I hope you find the truth you are seeking.

4. I won't wait for your response.

Peace to all.

calkaur ji thanks for presenting your view point most eloquently. Indeed if it is your belief, it is your belief and you have shown civility and virtue in your expression.

Reading the original post that this thread started with,

Quote:

"Do you think submissive means subservient?" O'Donnell asked.

"Not to us," Bachmann said. "To us it means respect. We respect each other, we listen to each other, we love each other and that is what it means."

I understand the use of the word "submission" in the context it was spoken in. Submission to your "Husband's or Wife's idea" is indeed a show of respect where someone is thinking for you with an alternate eye or aspect or vision. She could have used perhaps other more pleasant words but sometimes we are who we are.

Take care and please keep contributing here as your knowledge in Christianity is of course no match for mine. I have basically none!

Thank you.

harry haller · #15 (**permalink**) 27-Aug-2011, 14:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calkaur

Dear Harry,
I understand where you are coming from. In the past I would have agreed with your sentiments. However, after taking the time to study the meaning and context of ancient scripture, especially as handed down from the Magesterium (the teaching office of the Church) I now have a better understanding on many things. ffice

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You asked:

I don’t think the word of God will ever go out of style. I understand that the people of the 21st century have become more educated, more liberalized, and more secular but I don’t think that makes the Bible outdated.

By your logic we can assume that since it is acceptable in 21st century living for men and women to dress provocatively by exposing many parts of their bodies in public, then we should be preparing ourselves and our grandchildren to start walking around naked in the next century because that’s where it looks like we’re heading.

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If a man truly loves his wife, would it be so hard for her to obey him on what he believes to be in the best interest of his family? If a man truly loves God, then he will love his wife as God commands, and he would never ask of her to obey him in something that is contrary to God's will. We are all called to be holy, and the husband and wife help each other and sanctify each other on their path to heaven.

In the Christian marriage relationship, it is the husband's privilege to portray the headship of Christ over the church by his loving and sacrificial leadership. The wife's privelege is to symbolically represent the church in its submission to Christ, its Head. The husband symbolizes Christ's headship, while the wife symbolizes the submission of the church to her Head. The divinely appointed role of marriage as a symbol of Christ and the church is therefore the basis for the attitudes and behavior of the Christian marriage.

It is wonderful that you consider your wife your equal, because she is equal to you in human dignity. How many husbands do I know that treat their wives with humiliation? Many. And worse, these men use the Bible in a perverted and hypocrital way to justify their actions. Christianity does not teach that women are to be submissive and men are dominant; it teaches that men and women have different and complimentary roles to play. Moral teaching places obligations on both men and women to treat each other in an ethical and respectful manner. To say that men and women are different and have different roles does not contradict this. In Christianity men and women are both seen as equally important.

I guess in a feministic world, being obedient to one's husband (except in matters of sin) seems to be more painful to one's pride more than anything else.

Here is when our faith in God and a prayerful life is instrumental. We all have our "crosses to bear" and we must reach out to God for His help in carrying those crosses. We have no power to change anyone. Only He can do that by His grace alone.

Calkaurji

Some things go in cycles, I think it is a mistake to think that we are on a path to nakedness, orgies were around in the roman times, the kama sutra was around many many years ago, how does that explain victorian Britain, many factors change the way we dress and live.

Womens rights and liberation though has been getting more equal as time has gone by, and we are only just getting to the point where women are treated as equals in society and by men. Roles are not clearly defined anymore, it is not always the man that does all the manly work, and the woman that does all the cooking and cleaning, one day there will be no clear roles for the sexes. Does that mean women will lose all femininity? no of course not, my wife works very very long hours, and does lots of things she really does not need to, like shopping for patients, or like this morning, seeing 6 patients on a day off, this is not femininity, this is compassion, and women do not have a monopoly on it. My wife works harder than me, so on the whole, it is me that does the cooking, has dinner on the table, rubs her back, massages her feet, almost the role a woman had for a husband 30 years ago, does this make me feel any less masculine? no, not at all, if anything, it makes me feel more masculine, as in my mind, I am taking care of the person dearest to me, I am not Jesus, and my wife is not the congregation, in her eyes, I see god, and in my love for her, and god, I serve them both.

If a man truly loves his wife, would it be so hard for her to obey him on what he believes to be in the best interest of his family? If a man truly loves God, then he will love his wife as God commands, and he would never ask of her to obey him in something that is contrary to God's will. We are all called to be holy, and the husband and wife help each other and sanctify each other on their path to heaven.

Calkaurji, you put too much on me!! Why do I have to know what is best for my family?? Does my wife trust me to know what is best? the answer for me is no, and no. Some days, I am too waylaid by aloo prontha to know whats best for anyone, on those days, my wife knows I am away with the fairies, and without fuss, kicks in, the dogs get fed and walked, decisions get made, things get done, and my wife takes over, normally when she has a day off, and I am busy at work, then the roles get reversed, I get a meal on the table, and a back rub, if at that moment my wife trusted in me to be acting in everyones best interests, she would be solely mistaken!As for asking her to obey me in something that is contrary to gods will, I ask that of myself all the time, so how can I stop asking that to my wife?

it is wonderful that you consider your wife your equal, because she is equal to you in human dignity. How many husbands do I know that treat their wives with humiliation? Many. And worse, these men use the Bible in a perverted and hypocrital way to justify their actions. Christianity does not teach that women are to be submissive and men are dominant; it teaches that men and women have different and complimentary roles to play. Moral teaching places obligations on both men and women to treat each other in an ethical and respectful manner. To say that men and women are different and have different roles does not contradict this. In Christianity men and women are both seen as equally important.

In my view we all have the same roles to play, we both work, we both do housework, we both shop for soft furnishings, in fact last sunday, I bought a new wok, and my wife bought something for her car, and we came back and played with our respective purchases.

My wife is my best friend, I am not master in my own house, god is, and we both answer to god, it is this very inference that a wife sees the master in her husband and has to obey that master, that causes so many of the bullying and pain that exists in some marriages, christian or not