Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

Kanwaljit Singh · #55 (**permalink**) 04-Aug-2012, 08:07 AM

Do they worship the same God? No. Then something is really wrong

*

harry haller · #56 (**permalink**) 04-Aug-2012, 13:59 PM

Oh I dont know, more God for the rest of us

itsmaneet · #57 (**permalink**) 04-Aug-2012, 15:04 PM

Problem occurs when 'Religion is combined with Politics/Raj Dharam'
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/christianity/34723-do-christians-muslims-worship-same-god.html

Till both are separate, any country would live in harmony but if combined results will be disastrous.

Auzer · #58 (**permalink**) 04-Aug-2012, 16:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishna

The question 'do they worship the same God?' presupposes that those gods actually exist.

The fact is, Muslims believe they do worship the same god. Who are we to tell them they don't?

They way I see it, the personality of god in the Old Testament and the Koran are similar. The personality of god in the New Testament is different. I would say, Jews and Muslims worship the same God, Christian's don't.

And THAT is exactly what historical Judaism says

But insecure Christians like Potter keep bringing this up "Oh oh Muslims are devil worshippers , while we Jews and Christians are good God worshippers" ...and Jews respond " Uhh hello? Muslims and Jews worship the SAME God , not trinity"

Actually , do you know , that few years back---A Christian Pastor in France said some crap about Islam...and before Muslims would respond...A Jewish RABBI stood up...and OWNED that Pastor badly.

Historically , Islam and Judaism are almost EXACTLY the same religions...

Sadly , many Muslims and Jews don't know this...thanks to Israel-Palestine conflict.

Plus : I think that Potter is being extremely childish by saying "Oh we worship THIS God , Muslims worship THAT God ...blah blah..." ... I mean , we aren't living in medieval ages now , are we? Please cut this crap of "My God is better than your God"

Archived_member15 · #59 (**permalink**) 04-Aug-2012, 18:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auzer

And THAT is exactly what historical Judaism says

But insecure Christians like Potter keep bringing this up "Oh oh Muslims are devil worshippers , while we Jews and Christians are good God worshippers" ...and Jews respond " Uhh hello? Muslims and Jews worship the SAME God , not your pagan foolish trinity confusion"

Plus : I think that Potter is being extremely childish by saying "Oh we worship THIS God , Muslims worship THAT God ...blah blah..." ... I mean , we aren't living in medieval ages now , are we? Please cut this crap of "My God is better than your God"

Thank you Auzer for referring to the Blessed Trinity as "your pagan, foolish Trinity confusion"

That was nice wasn't it?

Actually I agreed with your last part about cutting out the "My God is better than your God" and yet by referring to the Christian conception of God in the way you have, I see a clear contradiction in terms because you seem to be inferring that the Islamic conception of God is infinetly superior to the Christian one.

It seems I am the only one on this thread who - earlier on if you look back - maintains that Jews, Muslims and Christians and all monotheists worship the same God but simply have, in some respects, different understandings of him.

The Qur'an call Jews and Christians People of the Book. It does not qualify this because of the apparent errors it believes Christians and Jews might have in their conception of God.

I re-quote what I quoted earlier:

"...He who enlightens all men coming into this world (John 1.9) has enlightened your mind for this purpose. Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. This affection we and you owe to each other in a more peculiar way than to people of other races because we worship and confess the same God though in diverse forms and daily praise and adore Him as the creator and ruler of this world. For, in the words of the Apostle, 'He is our peace who hath made both one.' This good action was inspired in your heart by God....This grace granted to you by God is admired and praised by many of the Roman nobility who have learned from us of your benevolence and high qualities [. . .] For God knows that we love you purely for His honour and that we desire your salvation and glory, both in this life and in the life to come. And we pray in our hearts and with our lips that God may lead you to the abode of happiness, to the bosom of the holy patriarch Abraham, after long years of life here on earth..."

- Pope St. Gregory VII, Letter XXI to Al-Nasir the Muslim Ruler of Bijaya (Algeria), 1076

"...Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common, as believers and as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs of hope, but also by multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a very model of faith in God, of submission to his will and of confidence in his goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection...The Catholic Church regards with respect and recognizes the equality of your religious progress, the richness of your spiritual tradition...On this path, you are assured, of the esteem and the collaboration of your Catholic brothers and sisters whom I represent among you this evening..."

- Blessed Pope John Paul II: Address to young Muslims in Casablanca, 1985

I second Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa:

"...But, how should we bring the manifold of religions to one unity, since our people have defended their religion with blood, and they hardly will be willing to accept a new, unified religion?

The Divine Word answers: You should not introduce a new religion. But, you should yourselves comprehend, and then show to the peoples, that the true religion is presupposed before all other religions. The unity is before the separation occurs...You will find that not another faith but the one and the same faith is presupposed everywhere...Moses had described a path to God, but this path was neither taken up by everyone nor was it understood by everyone. Jesus illuminated and perfected this path; nevertheless, many even now remain unbelievers. Muhammad tried to make the same path easier, so that it might be accepted by all, even idolaters. These are the most famous of the said paths to God, although many others were presented by the wise and the prophets...Even though you acknowledge diverse religions, you all presuppose in all of this diversity the one...It is you, O God, who is being sought in various religions in various ways, and named with various names. For you remain as you are, to all incomprehensible and inexpressible. When you will graciously grant it, then sword, jealous hatred and evil will cease and all will come to know that there is but one religion in the variety of religious rites..."

- Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (1401-1464)

It would appear that these two Popes and this Cardinal are in the minority........?

Auzer · #60 (**permalink**) 05-Aug-2012, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vouthon

Thank you Auzer for referring to the Blessed Trinity as "your pagan, foolish Trinity confusion"

That was nice wasn't it?

Actually I agreed with your last part about cutting out the "My God is better than your God" and yet by referring to the Christian conception of God in the way you have, I see a clear contradiction in terms because you seem to be inferring that the Islamic conception of God is infinetly superior to the Christian one.

It seems I am the only one on this thread who - earlier on if you look back - maintains that Jews, Muslims and Christians and all monotheists worship the same God but simply have, in some respects, different understandings of him.

The Qur'an call Jews and Christians People of the Book. It does not qualify this because of the apparent errors it believes Christians and Jews might have in their conception of God.

I re-quote what I quoted earlier:

"...He who enlightens all men coming into this world (John 1.9) has enlightened your mind for this purpose. Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. This affection we and you owe to each other in a more peculiar way than to people of other races because we worship and confess the same God though in diverse forms and daily praise and adore Him as the creator and ruler of this world. For, in the words of the Apostle, 'He is our peace who hath made both one.' This good action was inspired in your heart by God....This grace granted to you by God is admired and praised by many of the Roman nobility who have learned from us of your benevolence and high qualities [. . .] For God knows that we love you purely for His honour and that we desire your salvation and glory, both in this life and in the life to come. And we pray in our hearts and with our lips that God may lead you to the abode of happiness, to the bosom of the holy patriarch Abraham, after long years of life here on earth..."

- Pope St. Gregory VII, Letter XXI to Al-Nasir the Muslim Ruler of Bijaya (Algeria), 1076

"...Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common, as believers and as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs of hope, but also by multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a very model of faith in God, of submission to his will and of confidence in his goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection...The Catholic Church regards with respect and recognizes the equality of your religious progress, the richness of your spiritual tradition...On this path, you are assured, of the esteem and the collaboration of your Catholic brothers and sisters whom I represent among you this evening..."

- Blessed Pope John Paul II: Address to young Muslims in Casablanca, 1985

I second Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa:

"...But, how should we bring the manifold of religions to one unity, since our people have defended their religion with blood, and they hardly will be willing to accept a new, unified religion?

The Divine Word answers: You should not introduce a new religion. But, you should yourselves comprehend, and then show to the peoples, that the true religion is presupposed before all other religions. The unity is before the separation occurs...You will find that not another faith but the one and the same faith is presupposed everywhere...Moses had described a path to God, but this path was neither taken up by everyone nor was it understood by everyone. Jesus illuminated and perfected this path; nevertheless, many even now remain unbelievers. Muhammad tried to make the same path easier, so that it might be accepted by all, even idolaters. These are the most famous of the said paths to God, although many others were presented by the wise and the prophets...Even though you acknowledge diverse religions, you all presuppose in all of this diversity the one...It is you, O God, who is being sought in various religions in various ways, and named with various names. For you remain as you are, to all incomprehensible and inexpressible. When you will graciously grant it, then sword, jealous hatred and evil will cease and all will come to know that there is but one religion in the variety of religious rites..."

- Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (1401-1464)

It would appear that these two Popes and this Cardinal are in the minority........?

Sorry brother for the offense. I have edited my post.

I was referring to the position of historical Judaism regarding Abrahamic faith.

And Muslims believe that Jews , Christians , and Muslims the same God! Have you ever seen a Muslim guy opening a thread or posting like "Oh Christian worship devil-god blah"? While I can show you many Christian preachers , authors , televangelists talking about moon-god myth etc ... So it's Christians who always bring up these childish presumptions.

The main point of disagreement b/w Muslims and Christians is diety of Christ...not the God we worship.

Peace!

Archived_member15 · #61 (**permalink**) 05-Aug-2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auzer

Sorry brother for the offense. I have edited my post.

I was referring to the position of historical Judaism regarding Abrahamic faith.

And Muslims believe that Jews , Christians , and Muslims the same God! Have you ever seen a Muslim guy opening a thread or posting like "Oh Christian worship devil-god blah"? While I can show you many Christian preachers , authors , televangelists talking about moon-god myth etc ... So it's Christians who always bring up these childish presumptions.

The main point of disagreement b/w Muslims and Christians is diety of Christ...not the God we worship.

Peace!

My dear brother Auzer kaurhug

Come here kaurhug

A beautifully-worded reply. I also take back what I said!

I agree with everything you say. Yes there are a lot of Christians, although I would exempt the Catholic Church from this (which at least in its official teachings even has Islam mentioned in the Catechism!), have very childish opinions of Islam. I have heard of the "moon-god" rubbish touted by some Evangelicals who have clearly made no attempt to actually understand Islam, or appreciate the "equal religious progress" of their Muslim brothers and sisters that Pope John Paul II spoke of. Such people though deserve our pity, since it is rather sad to have to resort to such depths to buck-up one's own religion.

Do you know that Muslims around the world read Suras from the Qur'an out of respect for Pope John Paul II when he passed away in 2005?

He demanded that this be put into the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."³³⁰

Peace out in the name of the One God peacesignkaur

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #62 (**permalink**) 05-Aug-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmaneet

Problem occurs when 'Religion is combined with Politics/Raj Dharam'

Till both are separate, any country would live in harmony but if combined results will be disastrous.

NO JIOS...thats ultra vires the entire concept and premise of MIRI-PIRI concept of Sikh Dharma Gurmatt.

I am a bit surprised that you missed a quote attributed to GURU GOBIND SINGH JI...Raaj bina Na DHARAM challeh haein..Dharam Bina sabh Dhalleh malleh haein...... IF you notice the UNIQUE POSITION of the Darbar sahib harmandar vis a vis Akal Takhat you will notice that while ONE is visible form the other..its NOT quite true the other way around. That is by DESIGN.

1. Harmandar is the Seat of DHARAM...and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji reigns SUPREME.
2. The Akal Takhat also has at its Position of Honour the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
Parkash. This means the Akal Takhat is also the SEAT of AKAL
PURAKH - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
3. Commonly understood _ PIRI is in Harmandar and MIRI in Akal
Takhat. A CONCEPT brought into prominence by Guru Hargobind
Sahib Ji after the Martyrdom of Guru Arjun ji Sahib. Guru Hargobind
Sahib built the Akal takhat and SAT there as SACHA PATSHAH vs
the JHOOTHA Patsha of this world - jehangir at delhi.

4. Naturally because at the time of Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji there were TWO distinct Forms of SHABAD GURU - on as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and second as Human Guru. BUT after 1708 the Human Guru dehdharee LINE was ended by GUru Gobind Singh ji and the ONLY ONE Shabad GURU Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was bestowed Supreme Power in Gurmatt oriented Sikhi....with the PANJ Pyara led Khalsa Panth as Human GURU working UNDER the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

In GURMATT, the Politician of necessity has to be RELIGIOUS..Bound hand and foot by the Dharma Principles of honesty, brotherhood, love, universal ethics no fear or favour no corruption, no lying, no duplicity etc etc etc...That is IDEAL DHARAM RAAJ !!

But IF POLITICS overpowers Dharam...as has happened in PUNJAB..then the DIRTY POLITICIAN spreads his CANCER even inside the Akal takhat, Harmandar sahib, Gurdwaras/Takhats etc etc..sgpc etc are all INFECTED and highly DISEASED. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is IGNORED completely. Human Orders issue form Akal Takhat becasue they emerge from Guarded closed ROOMS and Behind Locked doors and NOT in the Presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in OPEN SANGAT. This means political HORSE TRADING and pay off like Golden Khandas lead to decisions visibly DISEASED...and smelling of TRASH.(Example of a SANT ( President of Sant samaaj no less !!) Caught red handed NAKED raping a lady, by HUNDRED VILLAGERS..whose testimony in OPEN COURT led to his conviction and sentencing to 10 years PRISON....however he received a CLEAN CHIT form Akal takhat FIVE sitting behind closed doors ???? DHARAM BINA SABH DHALLEH MALLHE HAEIN IN BEST FORM. THRES WAY MORE "DHARAM" VIISBLE IN THE human judge WHO SAT IN OPEN COURT AND SENTENCED THE HOLY MAN TO 10 YEARS IN PRISON...THAN IN THE FIVE HOLY ONES WHO SAT ON THE HALLOWED SEAT OF GURU HARGOBIND SAHIB AND ????

any one who has studied a little basic science will know that..One NEVER ADDS WATER to ACID....one ALWAYS ADDS ACID TO WATER. PUT just ONE TINY DROP of WATER into a basin full of ACID..and DISASTER....BUT NOTHING Happens IF ACID by bucketful into a WELL full of water also NOTHING will happen...its the same way..DHARAMA added to POLITICS...and POLITICS added to DHARMA...two different scenarios !! One DROP of Politics to Dharma blows up.....Loads of Dharma added to POLITICS..TRANSFORMS politics into Dharma !! Just one "politician" entering into a Peaceful United sangat..can DESTROY it within a short time...and lead to 2 or three Groups....and Electioneering..poster wars..kirpans drawn..dastaars removed..blood flowing...and IF just one Totally Dharmic person becoms a member of a warring snagat..with Love and Dharma he can over time unite them...!!!