What real historical/archeological evidence exists to support Christian doctrine?

Seeker9 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-Aug-2010, 04:29 AM

My Dear fellow SPN'ers
Sat Sri Akal

The Garden of Eden, The parting of the Red Sea, The miracles of Jesus....I could go on for a while as the Bible is a rich source of such material

But other than what was written down within the scriptures themselves, what secondary evidence exists to support these stories? I refer to them as stories deliberately!

More fundamentally......did Jesus really die on the cross and was he then resurrected three days later?

I note there has recently been much debate about the Christian faith on this forum using the integrity, (or otherwise), of the Bible as evidence

I thought I would approach the debate from a different angle and ask if the Christian Jesus was the same as the historical Jesus and if he really survived the crucifixion? I am focussing on Jesus as quite clearly, he is the primary figure in the Christian faith and its message about the redemption of mankind ...although it would have been really interesting to explore the other great Bible stories in Genesis and Exodus etc as well

I appreciate this is a controversial question, possibly bordering on offensive for devout followers, but I have been aware for some time of the belief that Jesus survived the crucifixion and continued to preach until his final days in Kashmir of all places. His tomb is thus supposedly in Srinagar

More background can be found here including some interesting historical references that appear to backup this claim:
http://www.tombofjesus.com/

I appreciate this isn't really a Sikh Philosophy thread so apologies in advance, and I will gladly accept the moderator's view on this

However, if anyone does want to reply, please do so without quoting Biblical scriptures and providing copious hyperlinks to websites that quote Biblical scriptures.

Instead, I am challenging believers to validate their beliefs with hard archaeological and historical evidence
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/christianity/31791-what-real-historical-archeological-evidence-exists.html

Something that is very easy for us to do in Sikhism as our Gurus existed within the last few hundred years, and we still have original handwritten documents and artefacts that belonged to our Gurus. I think, but could be wrong, that this makes Sikhism fairly unique as far as the World's great religions are concerned
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31791

Grateful for your views

Bittu · #2 (**permalink**) 11-Aug-2010, 01:20 AM

Hi,
Nice to see you again.
I think you are unaware of Biblical Archeology. There are number of sites of Biblical Archeology but I am not quoting them since you don't want them. I am very glad to say that Bible is Archeologically accurate. You are asking to prove Miracles by archeology, and that's very hard but not entirely impossible. As I said in our previous discussion Bible is not the book of History though it is Historically accurate. Its purpose & message is not science but Salvation. Its important to quote scripture, without them you can not find any thing in archeology of the Bible. Unlike other religions, Biblical characters & events are not stories they are real . and its proven from the findings. Archeology supports Bible, which is contrary your expectations.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31791
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31791

It is senseless to think that Jesus could have survived crucifixion. There are many proofs for His crucifixion & Death outside Bible and also for His Resurrection. What you mentioned as the tomb of Jesus, is a great Lie. That tomb is of "Yura Asaf" that has nothing to do with Jesus. He never came to India. He is not lying dead in any tomb like others He is Resurrected LORD.

We can prove Bible archeologically. Now I want to ask you, "Can you prove Sikhism Archeologically?"

I again what to advice to don't just look ant-christian material.
Thank You.

Seeker9 · #3 (**permalink**) 11-Aug-2010, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bittu

Hi,
Nice to see you again.

And you Bittu Ji

I think you are unaware of Biblical Archeology. There are number of sites of Biblical Archeology but I am not quoting them since you don't want them. I am very glad to say that Bible is Archeologically accurate.

Actually I am. As i have said before key places and people are confirmed. But the questtion I am asking is if the Biblical versions and the historical versions are the same. For example, Islam which is a much later religion also reveres Jesus but in a different way. And whether you choose to agree or not, the belief He died in India has been arouud for some time

You are asking to prove Miracles by archeology, and that's very hard but not entirely impossible. As I said in our previous discussion Bible is not the book of History though it is Historically accurate. Its purpose & message is not science but Salvation.

I would agree but I note you presented a lot of Biblical "Science" on another thread and your own website

Its important to quote scripture, without them you can not find any thing in archeology of the Bible. Unlike other religions, Biblical characters & events are not stories they are real . and its proven from the findings. Archeology supports Bible, which is contrary your expectations.

No it is not. My above point refers

It is senseless to think that Jesus could have survived crucifixion. There are many proofs for His crucifixion & Death outside Bible and also for His Resurrection

Please tell us more about these proofs outside the Bible

. What you mentioned as the tomb of Jesus, is a great Lie. That tomb is of "Yura Asaf" t
at has nothing to do with Jesus. He never came to India. He is not lying dead in any tomb like others He is Resurrected LORD.

We can prove Bible archeologically. Now I want to ask you, "Can you prove Sikhism Archeologically?"

Very easily indeed. Remember it's only a few centuries back

I again what to advice to don't just look ant-christian material.
Thank You.

It's a question of balance and genuine debate as opposed to presenting a one-sided view
Thanks

ZaraONE · #4 (**permalink**) 11-Aug-2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker9

It's a question of balance and genuine debate as opposed to presenting a one-sided view
Thanks

Humanity as a whole we are SEEKERS to learn the real essence of Truth for ourselves. Who are we and why are we here. I am a citizen of the Universe and everyone is my brother and sister irrespective of religion, colour, caste etc. We are ALL One.

Remember this one thing, The Creator Lives IN the Creation. Everyone we are meeting is giving us clues to follow on our journey through life. Think on this very carefully.

On my spiritual journey as they say when the student is ready the teacher will appear, in my case books have been recommended and actually given to me. This has always been a strong Universe "sign" read this material. Each time a conversation or book has revealed another level of data that has questioned my overall belief system.

Here are 3 books I would highly recommend that perhaps may encourage the readers of this post to explore further your belief system. You then be the judge of the data and the information because it varies so much on the topic of Jesus.

Please, remember, your Truth is not anyone elses Truth, seek who YOU are within, let your intuition guide you. You already have everything inside of you, you just need to connect and get activated, then everything will be revealed!

I belief in not going to outside sources for my Truth I ask within and then I get my answer through intuition and action. Simple. No channeling or weird stuff just simply ask and you will receive direct from the Source within.

All 3 books were given to me to read, I took no action to go find them, they came to me through people for a reason, I am an explorer and so I read them!

1) The Eternal Validity of your Soul (Seth Speaks) - Jane Roberts
2) Messages from Michael by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro
website: http://www.michaelteachings.com/
3) The mystical life of Jesus - Sylvia Brown

Let Go. Simply Trust Life.

Narayanjot Kaur · #5 (**permalink**) 12-Aug-2010, 00:27 AM

Bittu ji

You have demonstrated serious problems living up to your obligation to follow TOS here at SPN.

Never Never change any material that I have edited after I make changes. Never never tell me or any other moderator what they may delete and what they may not delete.

Your last comment has been physically removed. The thread is closed. Do not continue to defy the SPN Terms of Service. Your participation here is not welcome.]

Below are Bittu ji's replies relevant to points raised by Seeker9 ji. Special fonts, size, color have been edited out.

Quote:

What do you mean by Biblical versions and the historical versions? It’s not just places and people but events are also confirmed. Islam, Quran and its author misunderstood Christianity, and deliberately claimed things without any proof contrary to history, just to prove Muhammad’s prophet hood, because if Jesus died and raised from the dead then it means Islam is false. There is no proof that Jesus ever came to India and died here. Neither Christians nor Muslims (though they are not authoritative for us) believe such ridiculous thing. Both Christianity and Islam believe Jesus is alive, not lying in any tomb. The tomb which is claimed to be of Jesus is under custody of Muslims, but they never claimed that. The theory that Jesus came to India and died here is recent invention. Started by Ahamdiya Muslims (the site you gave is of this sect) to whom all other sects of Islam consider heretic, and in Government Pakistan they are not even counted as Muslims. A Muslim refuted to the web site you provided see his reply

http://www.alhafeez.org/rashid/grave.html
Only those who want to credit India for Jesus’ teaching and His personality are claiming such things, whether Indians or foreigners.

I would agree but I note you presented a lot of Biblical "Science" on another thread and your own website.

I didn’t present science to prove miracles; I only presented science where it is mentioned in the Bible.

I don’t understand what you are talking about! Please make it clear.

To check whether Bible is archeologically correct or not we will have to check first Biblical references (scriptures) without them we cannot know what Bible claims and the findings are same as mentioned in the Bible.

Many ancient Christian & non-Christian (even anti-Christian) historians mentioned Jesus, His Crucifixion and Death for ex (non-Christian historians).
Lucian of Samosata,