Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims and Christians the Relationship! A Simplistic Model

hps62 · #1 (**permalink**) 22-Jun-2006, 21:55 PM

Dear Brother

SSAKAL

I as a Sikhs look at the relation amongst them as follows.

This model is certianly not unique and is also very simplistic and worldly.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/books-on-sikhism/8982-sikhs-hindus-muslims-christians-relationship-simplistic.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8982
It does not explore the divine relationship each have with one other

Punjabi hindus as mother of Sikhism ,

Mughal muslims as the father

British christians as the God father of Sikhs.

We area harmonious blend of all three.

The good points of each are in and the bad points are out .

We are trying to get rid of :-

caste superiority derived from hindu mother ,

racial superiority derived from British Godfather and

intolerance from Bigot muslim.

I am also aware that this path shall be used decieptly by muslim brother to achieve a foot hold in the christian and hindu civilization to achieve their foolish dream of rooting kafirs from this planet.

But they must remember this path is for the secular people to tread of which Sikh is a proud member.

They cannot fool all the people for all the time.

We shall keep an watchful eyes on such non secular elements.
We are after all the Khalsa the guardian of all life forms Kafirs or other wise.

I know the path is dificult and thorny but we shall one day succed in unifying the man kind in to one large family.

love

hps62

Narayanjot Kaur · #2 (**permalink**) 16-Jun-2009, 22:02 PM

A post has been moved to the Leaders section because it is proselytizing for Christianity, and it was placed in the Book Review section which makes it off topic. The poster Shearwater has been warned many times.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8982

Thank you, aad002

truefriend111 · #3 (**permalink**) 21-May-2010, 13:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hps62

Dear Brother

SSAKAL

I as a Sikhs look at the relation amongst them as follows.

This model is certianly not unique and is also very simplistic and worldly.
It does not explore the divine relationship each have with one other

Punjabi hindus as mother of Sikhism ,

Mughal muslims as the father

British christians as the God father of Sikhs.

We area harmonious blend of all three.

The good points of each are in and the bad points are out .

We are trying to get rid of :-

caste superiority derived from hindu mother ,

racial superiority derived from British Godfather and

intolerance from Bigot muslim.

I am also aware that this path shall be used decieptly by muslim brother to achieve a foot hold in the christian and hindu civilization to achieve their foolish dream of rooting kafirs from this planet.

But they must remember this path is for the secular people to tread of which Sikh is a proud member.

They cannot fool all the people for all the time.

We shall keep an watchful eyes on such non secular elements.
We are after all the Khalsa the guardian of all life forms Kafirs or other wise.

I know the path is dificult and thorny but we shall one day succed in unifying the man kind in to one large family.

love

hps62

I am with you my dear brother as you rightly said that"the path is dificult and thorny but we shall one day succed in unifying the man kind in to one large family." so if we all try then i real terms we will be the members of one family.

We all are the members of one family and the creator is one. as it is said in Bible as well as in Quran as well as inGuru Granth Sahib

According to Muslims an Kaffir is an person who does not follow the commandements of Allah and the one who does not submits his wil to Allah(God/Bhagwan/Dev).

The same is said by Guru Nanak in Guru Granth Saheb
hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]1]
O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. ||1||

hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ]
Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.

Everyone believes that the commandments of the God should be followed but the problem is the "Christians" says it is "Bible", "Muslims" says it is mentioned in "Quran,etc", "Hindus" says it is in "Vedas,Upanishads,etc" "Sikh" says it is in "Guru Granth Saheb,etc"

roopsidhu · #4 (**permalink**) 23-May-2010, 18:54 PM

SSA,t
ruefriend111 quoted
We are trying to get rid of :-

caste superiority derived from hindu mother ,
racial superiority derived from British Godfather and
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8982
intolerance from Bigot muslim.

Yes we are trying to get rid of these three things but how much we have got rid of above things in the last 300 years? Isn.t it seems very slow? All above three factors still prevail.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8982
roopsidhu

truefriend111 · #5 (**permalink**) 29-May-2010, 17:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roopsidhu

SSA,t
ruefriend111 quoted
We are trying to get rid of :-

caste superiority derived from hindu mother ,
racial superiority derived from British Godfather and
intolerance from Bigot muslim.

Yes we are trying to get rid of these three things but how much we have got rid of above things in the last 300 years? Isn.t it seems very slow? All above three factors still prevail.
roopsidhu

Yes I am with you, but u should not judge the religion based on the person who is following it.But We should see what the religious scriptures say --

1. According to Hindu Scriptures--According to the Hindu scriptures, the Brahmans have sprung from the mouth of Brahma (Hindu creator god), the Kshatriyas from his arms, the Vashyas from his thighs and the Sudras from his feet.

the Hindu Book of Law, the Manu Smriti, has to say about the duties based upon castes.
Manu Smriti says in Ch.1 Vv. 88-91 …
“The six duties of a Brahmin are : Study, teach, performing ritual Yagna for self and for others (mind you, they make fortunes out of it!), giving^* and accepting alms.
The duties of a Kshatriya are : Study during Brahmacharya (bachelorhood), perform rituals like Yagna give charity, rule efficiently, maintain good conduct and abstain from intoxicants.
The duties of a vaishya are: Study Vedas, perform rituals like, Yagna, give charity, maintain cattle, sell milk and other products, carry out agriculture, take usury, on loans.
The duties of the Sudra are: The Lord orders that a Sudra has to simply obey and serve the above three castes without any feeling of resentment.” EXPRESSED IN THE SIMPLEST MANNER! ISN’T IT?
2. According To Quran & Bible-- All human beings have came from Adam and Eve (pbut). So according to the Scriptures of Muslims & Christians there is no caste,racial superiority.

Most Imp:-We all Human beings can be united and can live in peace and harmony if we follow the guidelines of our creator in the right perspective.

Narayanjot Kaur · #6 (**permalink**) 29-May-2010, 22:59 PM

truefriend ji

There is more to the Law of Manu than you have printed here. If you think that it is relevant, and took the time to include its reference, then a thorough critique of its contents is going to be the result.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8982

Shudras are told their call is to obey and serve without resentment. That is an understatement. How would you like to be told that obedience was your lot over many lifetimes until all karmas are cleansed. Until then the most outrageous sanctions and punishments would be justified. Let's be realistic as to the historical truths that follow from your statements. And at the top of the pile...Brahmins accept alms. Graft and bribes is more like it. I am prepared to refute in detail these claims.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8982

The important thing from the perspective of a Sikh is that Guru Nanak found all of this to be the root of decay in society of his time. And he found there were too many who were either too weak or too corrupt or too divided to off-set the brutality of Persian and Moghul oppression. So the system of caste and any part of the Vedas that support it are off the table as a source of justice, IMHO.

In the centuries long search for this one perspective, which you mention, that can unite us, we need to keep in mind that it is indeed "human beings" who take entire civilizations off the path of dharma. Suffering ensues. I would not under-estimate it. I would also not over-estimate the ability of religions you name to put us back on that path. It has not happened yet. Only rare individuals have given us insight into Oneness, and they too were "human beings."

Pat solutions have already been tried. Please refrain from proselytizing for islam and/or Christianity.

truefriend111 · #7 (**permalink**) 31-May-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur

truefriend ji

There is more to the Law of Manu than you have printed here. If you think that it is relevant, and took the time to include its reference, then a thorough critique of its contents is going to be the result.

Shudras are told their call is to obey and serve without resentment. That is an understatement. How would you like to be told that obedience was your lot over many lifetimes until all karmas are cleansed. Until then the most outrageous sanctions and punishments would be justified. Let's be realistic as to the historical truths that follow from your statements. And at the top of the pile...Brahmins accept alms. Graft and bribes is more like it. I am prepared to refute in detail these claims.

The important thing from the perspective of a Sikh is that Guru Nanak found all of this to be the root of decay in society of his time. And he found there were too many who were either too weak or too corrupt or too divided to off-set the brutality of Persian and Moghul oppression. So the system of caste and any part of the Vedas that support it are off the table as a source of justice, IMHO.

In the centuries long search for this one perspective, which you mention, that can unite us, we need to keep in mind that it is indeed "human beings" who take entire civilizations off the path of dharma. Suffering ensues. I would not under-estimate it. I would also not over-estimate the ability of religions you name to put us back on that path. It has not happened yet. Only rare individuals have given us insight into Oneness, and they too were "human beings."

Pat solutions have already been tried. Please refrain from proselytizing for islam and/or Christianity.

It was an reply to the post Originally posted by @Roopsidhu who says we have to get rid of
caste superiority derived from hindu mother ,
racial superiority derived from British Godfather and
intolerance from Bigot muslim.
I am of the Opinion while passing on comment look whether the religion says or the person who themself calls them as they are Muslims,Christians,Sikhs,Hindus,etc. are doing it see who is the real culprit.
As far as he says 1.Caste superiority derived from hindu mother---I agree with him as the religion says about it & I quoted with reference where it says.
As far as he says-2&3.racial superiority derived from British Godfather and intolerance from Bigot muslim---& also u supported it with regarding the Moghuls. But look at whether the religion permitts them to do so.But if they are not following their religion properly it their fault not of the religion.
See if any scriptures speaks the Truth of any religion i do quote it in order that they can understand the religion not just by the followers.And i like to post the truth whichever religion might say it.
As i have seen many of them speak about the greatness of their religion only & underestimate the other religion. But i like to quote what is right if known from every religion.
As it is said in Guru Granth Saheb--
ਨਾਨਕ ਬੇੜੀ ਸਚ ਕੀ ਤਰੀਐ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
नानक बेड़ी सच की तरीऐ गुर वीचारि ॥
Nānak beṛī sacẖ kī ṯarī▫ai gur vīcẖār.
O Nanak, the Boat of Truth will ferry you across; contemplate the Guru.

Please refrain from proselytizing.

Do not mislead yourself or others by quoting one verse of Sri Guru Granth Sahib out of the context of the entire shabad.

Thank you, Narayanjot Kaur

p/s These changes are copied.

roopsidhu · #8 (**permalink**) 31-May-2010, 15:56 PM

Originally posted by truefriend111
I am of the Opinion while passing on comment look whether the religion says or the person who themself calls them as they are Muslims,Christians,Sikhs,Hindus,etc. are doing it see who is the real culprit.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8982
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8982

In my post I have not expressed that religion is responsible for these factors. I am sorry to say they "while passing on comment " we should read other's posts carefully. Its very clear that not religion but the persons are culprit. I have not written that religion says it.
Roopsidhu

truefriend111 · #9 (**permalink**) 02-Jun-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truefriend111

It was an reply to the post Originally posted by @Roopsidhu who says we have to get rid of
caste superiority derived from hindu mother ,
racial superiority derived from British Godfather and
intolerance from Bigot muslim.
I am of the Opinion while passing on comment look whether the religion says or the person who themself calls them as they are Muslims,Christians,Sikhs,Hindus,etc. are doing it see who is the real culprit.
As far as he says 1.Caste superiority derived from hindu mother---I agree with him as the religion says about it & I quoted with reference where it says.
As far as he says-2&3.racial superiority derived from British Godfather and intolerance from Bigot muslim---& also u supported it with regarding the Moghuls. But look at whether the religion permitts them to do so.But if they are not following their religion properly it their fault not of the religion.
See if any scriptures speaks the Truth of any religion i do quote it in order that they can understand the religion not just by the followers.And i like to post the truth whichever religion might say it.
As i have seen many of them speak about the greatness of their religion only & underestimate the other religion. But i like to quote what is right if known from every religion.
As it is said in Guru Granth Saheb--
ਨਾਨਕ ਬੇੜੀ ਸਚ ਕੀ ਤਰੀਐ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
नानक बेड़ी सच की तरीऐ गुर वीचारि ॥
Nānak beṛī sacẖ kī ṯarī▫ai gur vīcẖār.
O Nanak, the Boat of Truth will ferry you across; contemplate the Guru.

Please refrain from proselytizing.

Do not mislead yourself or others by quoting one verse of Sri Guru Granth Sahib out of the context of the entire shabad.

Thank you, Narayanjot Kaur

p/s These changes are copied.

@Narayanjot Kaur
I am sorry If i had Quoted out of context as you stated. But here in the above text i had quoted which says "it is the boat of Truth which will ferry us across" and this satement fits into any context. Because it's speaking about following the Truth.

If at all if do you think i am quoting Out of Context, i will be glad to know the context and why doesn't it fits when i use it while telling anyone this statement as Gurunanak says In Guru Granth Saheb to follow the truth by quoting the above verse.

And whether can i use the above verse while telling anyone that Gurunanak says In Guru Granth Saheb to follow the truth by quoting the above verse.

AS i like to quote verses from any scriptures while conversing with friends as far as they are align with righteousness.And i do like the above verse of Guru Granth Saheb which is right.