Is Bhagat Namdev Ji An Idol Worshipper?

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.

Bhagat namdev Ji is from MAHARASTRA. In Maharashtra there is a Hindu mandir with a KRISHAN JI Moortee called BEETHAL ( Krishan Ji sitting ona Rock ). Once Bhagat madev Ji entered this mandir and was Promptly KICKED OUT of iyt by the Pandits for being a SHUDRA LOW CASTE. Bhagat ji took his blanket and did samadhi at the BACK of the mandir and Prayed to HIS "BEETHAL = WAHEGURU=AKAL PURAKH"....as to WHY he is being discriminated like this just becasue of his LOW CASTE....and Low and Behold..the MANDIR ROTATED on its FOUNDATION to FACE Bhagat namdev Ji sitting at its BACK.. This incident is mentioned by Bhagat Ji in His Gurbani in the Guru Granth Ji sahib.. This Shabad led to the MISCONCEPTION that Bhagat namdev Ji was a "Beethal" Moortee idol worshipper.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bhagats/5497-is-bhagat-namdev-ji-idol-worshipper.html

1. Question arises...since Bhagat namdev Ji is LOCAL RESIDENT, His Low caste is well Known to all. The Beethal mandir is also LOCAL. IF Bhagat namdev Ji had been going to the Mandir as a REGULAR WORSHIPPER...then it begs the question as to WHY he was Kicked out one day and not before ??

2 The second reason for thsi misconception si that Bahgat ji uses the word BEETHAL a lot in his writings...But if we care to read his writings properly..we will noticve that Bhagat Ji's BEETHAL is a word for word decription of AKAL PURAKH..and not a stone idol.

dUDu ktorY gfvY pwnI ] kpl gwie nwmY duih AwnI ]1] dUDu pIau goibMdy rwie ] dUDu pIau, myro mnu pqIAwie ] nwhI q Gr ko bwpu irswie ]1] rhwau ] suoien ktorI AMimRq BrI ] lY nwmY hir AwgY DrI ]2] eyku Bgqu myry ihrdy bsY ] nwmy dyiK nrwienu hsY ]3] dUDu pIAwie Bgqu Gir gieAw ] nwmy hir kw drsnu BieAw ]4]3] {pMnw 1163}

This shabad has always been quoted by many derawallhs followers to prove that bahagt anmdev Ji is also a Idol worshipper just like Bhagat Dhanna Ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497

They do "superficial" aarths of this shabad as "proof"...

What do the readers think...???

Jarnail Singh

 
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__________________
We hear with our ears but we listen with our minds.
Hearing the sound of a mantra is one thing - listening to it is another !

Gurfateh

It apears that like First Master visited Jagannath Temple not to worship but to preach so did Sant Namdev Ji wentto temple to rove that Akal is real bethal and not the idol.

Given that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ) is the living Guru of the Khalsa Panth, one must surely accept the contents therein and not doubt even the very paper it's written on let alone question the authencity of any of it's composers.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497

We must attune to the spirit of Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ and not to the letter or the ink used. Let us accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ as our "Lord God" and not question the identity or the creed of the composers.

Our dear father, Sri Guru Govind Singh Ji said, "khoj shabad main lay" (recite any shabad from Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ and you will cross the ocean of life).

Let us dwell on any "one" word from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in its spiritual form rather than engage in controversial matters of the illusionary world.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497

Warm regards

Bhagat Nam Dev Ji was accepted by Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji among the 15 Bhagats whose Bani was included in the formation of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which was called as 'Pothi Sahib' at the time of its installation in the holy precints of Harmandar Sahib Ji, the Centre of Sikh Religion then in 1604 A.D.

We cannot imagin even in our drems that Guru Arjun Dev ji did not exercise proper judgement and faulted in accepting the bani of Bhagat Nam Dev Ji, whom some misguided Sikhs call him Krishan Bhagat instead of Akal Purakh. Gurbani says " Nam Dev Kabir Trilochan Pure Gur te gat payee". Nama kahe tirlochana mukh te ram samhal, hath pao kar kam sabh cheet niranjan naal".
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497

Bhagat Naam Dev ji visited that famous temple to educate people worshiping in that temple of the hollowness of their "karmkands" and taking them away from "Murti Puja' being performed at that temple. To understand this, we should look at the parchar strategy of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, who went to Haridwar, Mecca, Sumer Parbat, Achal Batale, Jagan Nath Temple to give them his message. Guru Nanak Dev ji did not subscribe to the viewpoints prevailng in those areas, similarly Bhagt Nam Dev ji did not subscribe to the "Murti Puja" being done in the temple, he addressed Almighty about the wrongs being done there in a very sarcastic manner to deliver his message. We need to understand the true meaning of Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and beware of some anti panthic forces who are out to prove Sikhs as Murti Pujaks. They have not spared Guru Gobind Singh Ji and tried to prove that he was "Devi Pujak'. So be careful of their evil design. Understand the true meaning of Gurbani. In case of any doubt refer to the 'Guru Granth Sahib Darpan', the interpretation of the entire bani of Guru Granth Sahib ji by Prof. Sahib Singh Ji, which is available in 10 volumes. In the past about 60-65 years ago, the so called Sikh Scholars in Babu Teja Singh of Bhasaur had committed the same mistake and attempted to discard the entire Bhagat Bani and attempted to publish Guru Granth Sahib ji without Bhagat Bani. He was excommunicated from the Panth.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497

Let us devote ourselves to the understanding of Gurbani on the basis of 'Gurbani Grammar'.

Tejinder Singh Ji, thank you for your reflecting thoughts on Bhagat Namdev Ji. I was trying to draw the writer (Gyani Jarnail Singh) to look away from the critical viewpoint of any of the composers of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and instead, try and link people to the philosophical wisdom enshrined within.

I'm afraid I'm not fully aware of any anti-panthic people who deliberately go out to dishonour Sikhism and even if they did in their folly, they will one day by the very same Almighty realise the "truth" that Sikhi is. Let us therefore, pray for all souls to realise the "Satnam Waheguru" of the house of Guru Nanak.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497

Kind regards

Make the spiritual connection with Bhagat Namdev. Ang 656/657


ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
There is but One God. By True Guru's grace, He is obtained.

ਜਬ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਬ ਗਾਵਾ ॥
जब देखा तब गावा ॥
Jab ḏekẖā ṯab gāvā.
When I see my Lord, then sing I His praise.

ਤਉ ਜਨ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਪਾਵਾ ॥੧॥
तउ जन धीरजु पावा ॥१॥
Ŧa▫o jan ḏẖīraj pāvā. ||1||
It is then, that I, His slave, obtain forbearance.

ਨਾਦਿ ਸਮਾਇਲੋ ਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟਿਲੇ ਦੇਵਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
नादि समाइलो रे सतिगुरु भेटिले देवा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Nāḏ samā▫ilo re saṯgur bẖetile ḏevā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Meeting with the Bright True Guru. I have merged in the world-incarnate Lord. Pause.

ਜਹ ਝਿਲਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਰੁ ਦਿਸੰਤਾ ॥
जह झिलि मिलि कारु दिसंता ॥
Jah jẖil mil kār ḏisanṯā.
Where the dazzling light is seen,

ਤਹ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਬਜੰਤਾ ॥
तह अनहद सबद बजंता ॥
Ŧah anhaḏ sabaḏ bajanṯā.
there plays the celestial strain.

ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਨੀ ॥
जोती जोति समानी ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497
Joṯī joṯ samānī.
The Light of the Luminous Lord is pervading there.

ਮੈ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੨॥
मै गुर परसादी जानी ॥२॥
Mai gur parsādī jānī. ||2||
By Guru's grace I have known it.

ਰਤਨ ਕਮਲ ਕੋਠਰੀ ॥
रतन कमल कोठरी ॥
Raṯan kamal koṯẖrī.
In the heat-lotus chamber are the jewels.

ਚਮਕਾਰ ਬੀਜੁਲ ਤਹੀ ॥
चमकार बीजुल तही ॥
Cẖamkār bījul ṯahī.
There they glitter like lightning.

ਨੇਰੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
नेरै नाही दूरि ॥
Nerai nāhī ḏūr.
The Lord is near, not distant.

ਨਿਜ ਆਤਮੈ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ ॥੩॥
निज आतमै रहिआ भरपूरि ॥३॥
Nij āṯmai rahi▫ā bẖarpūr. ||3||
He completely permeates my mind.

ਜਹ ਅਨਹਤ ਸੂਰ ਉਜ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਰਾ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497
जह अनहत सूर उज्यारा ॥
Jah anhaṯ sūr uj▫yārā.
Where there is the light of the undying sun,

ਤਹ ਦੀਪਕ ਜਲੈ ਛੰਛਾਰਾ ॥
तह दीपक जलै छंछारा ॥
Ŧah ḏīpak jalai cẖẖancẖẖārā.
there, the burning lamps of the sum and the moon appear insignificant.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥
गुर परसादी जानिआ ॥
Gur parsādī jāni▫ā.
By Guru's grace, I have known this.

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਮਾ ਸਹਜ ਸਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੧॥
जनु नामा सहज समानिआ ॥४॥१॥
Jan nāmā sahj samāni▫ā. ||4||1||
Slave Nama is absorbed in his Lord.

Beautiful ! That is harmony at its best -

The nature and purpose of "gurbani" is to up-lift the soul melodiously on board the universial flow (anhad shabad) and connect.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497
I'm sincerely grateful for you to dig up that particular verse - once again, thank you !

My answer is stronly No. Bhagat ji was not at all Idol worshiper. He was not Krishan's Bhagat. He was Hari's bhagat. In his bani He wrote, Ram, Beethal, Hari, Sanwla, and Suami, Gobinde, Khana,etc.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497
Bhagat ji used Beethal word 9 times but Guru Arjan used 6 times . If he used bethal word many times does not mean that he was Beethal Bhagat. Look at the whole Shabad then see what is the intent of the Shabad. Bhagatji never never said that he was Beethal's Bhagat. If you want more clearification go look Prof Sahib singhji" 5th Pothi page 705.
Next question thahe was Idol worshipper. Not at all. Look at his all other Shabads in which he strongly condemn Karam Kand one of them that he strongly condem is Pathar POOJa in Gujri Rag. and also condem other Avtars in ' NAME AJJ BEETHAL DEKHIA, MOORAKH KO SAMJAOO RE"
IF he had condemned Karam Kand and Pathar Pooja then how come he is branded as idol worshiper. This type of the accusation is only possible form a person who could have very poor knoledge of Gurbani. When you interpret Gurbani you read the whole Shabad with Rahao wali line which is your central point and whole Shabad is its explanation. More over you need to interpret the intent of shabad keeping in mind the grammer of the Shabad. If you read literal meaning of Shabad then you will be on wrong path. I can give you example the same shabad of Bhagatji.
In the last line word Bhagat is plural word and JANAN is also plural. That means that Mander could be every place where all Bhagats feel about it. It is not about that particular Mander. It is not about particular Bhagat Nama Devji. This is true for all Bhagats. This explain the whole thing that Mander never rotate. But all mander are felt by all Bhagats where ever they like. This supports the previous version of the Shabad; NAME SOI SIMERYA, NA DEHURA NA MASEET" and remember Almighty is at every place.
Chamkaur Brar. If some body has question about it then please can call me on PHONE NUMBER REMOVED AS IT IS NOT SAFE INTERNET PRACTICE. PLEASE USE PRIVATE MESSAGING FACILITY. THANKS.

Chamkaur brar ji

I think this is one of the shabads you refer to above. It is good to have it in front of us so that we can understand your explanation better, and see how indeed it does come from the shabad. This is also interesting because the rehao line is the very first -- unusual but very emphatic. Ang 874/5
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497

ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਗੋਂਡ ॥
bilaaval gonadd ||
Bilaaval Gond:


ਆਜੁ ਨਾਮੇ ਬੀਠਲੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਮੂਰਖ ਕੋ ਸਮਝਾਊ ਰੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
aaj naamae beethal dhaekhiaa moorakh ko samajhaaoo rae || rehaao ||
Today, Naam Dayv saw the Lord, and so I will instruct the ignorant. ||Pause||

ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਲੋਧੇ ਕਾ ਖੇਤੁ ਖਾਤੀ ਥੀ ॥
paanddae thumaree gaaeithree lodhhae kaa khaeth khaathee thhee ||
O Pandit, O religious scholar, your Gayatri was grazing in the fields.


ਲੈ ਕਰਿ ਠੇਗਾ ਟਗਰੀ ਤੋਰੀ ਲਾਂਗਤ ਲਾਂਗਤ ਜਾਤੀ ਥੀ ॥੧॥
lai kar thaegaa ttagaree thoree laangath laangath jaathee thhee ||1||
Taking a stick, the farmer broke its leg, and now it walks with a limp. ||1||


ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਧਉਲੇ ਬਲਦ ਚੜਿਆ ਆਵਤੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਥਾ ॥
paanddae thumaraa mehaadhaeo dhhoulae baladh charriaa aavath dhaekhiaa thhaa ||
O Pandit, I saw your great god Shiva, riding along on a white bull.

ਮੋਦੀ ਕੇ ਘਰ ਖਾਣਾ ਪਾਕਾ ਵਾ ਕਾ ਲੜਕਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਥਾ ॥੨॥
modhee kae ghar khaanaa paakaa vaa kaa larrakaa maariaa thhaa ||2||
In the merchant's house, a banquet was prepared for him - he killed the merchant's son. ||2||

ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਰਾਮਚੰਦੁ ਸੋ ਭੀ ਆਵਤੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਥਾ ॥
paanddae thumaraa raamachandh so bhee aavath dhaekhiaa thhaa ||
O Pandit, I saw your Raam Chand coming too


ਰਾਵਨ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਰਬਰ ਹੋਈ ਘਰ ਕੀ ਜੋਇ ਗਵਾਈ ਥੀ ॥੩॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=5497
raavan saethee sarabar hoee ghar kee joe gavaaee thhee ||3||
he lost his wife, fighting a war against Raawan. ||3||


ਹਿੰਦੂ ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ ਤੁਰਕੂ ਕਾਣਾ ॥
hindhoo annhaa thurakoo kaanaa ||
The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye.


ਦੁਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥
dhuhaan thae giaanee siaanaa ||
The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them.


ਹਿੰਦੂ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥
hindhoo poojai dhaehuraa musalamaan maseeth ||
The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque.


ਨਾਮੇ ਸੋਈ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਜਹ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਨ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥੪॥੩॥੭॥
naamae soee saeviaa jeh dhaehuraa n maseeth ||4||3||7||
Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque. ||4||3||7||