Bhagat Ravidas of The Guru Granth

Bhagat Ravidas of The Guru Granth
by Hardev Bahri & Harjinder Singh

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bhagats/29085-bhagat-ravidas-of-the-guru-granth.html

Today, January 30, is the birth anniversary of Bhagat Ravidas ji [1450 - 1520, estimated]

Ravidās, poet and mystic, was born to Raghū and Ghurbiniā, who lived near the city of Vārāṇasī, in present day Uttar Pradesh, India.

Not much biographical information about him is available but, from what can be made out of his own compositions, he belonged to a hindu 'low-caste' (chamār - leather worker/ cobbler ) family. He followed the family profession of tanning hides and making shoes.

Gradually he started spending most of his time in the company of saints and sādhūs and built himself a thatched hut wherein he received and entertained wandering ascetics. Many stories became knownt about his simplicity and piety of nature. He became famous as a Vaiṣṇava saint in the tradition of Rāmānand.

In the course of his spiritual quest, he reached a stage when he discarded images and idols and turned to the worship of the Supreme Being. He wrote deeply impassioned devotional verses and left his mark on Hindi literature for the fusion of religious sentiment with the vernacular medium.

Forty of his hymns have been incorporated in the Sikh Scripture, the Gurū Granth Sāhib. Accordingly, he is accorded deep respect by Sikhs as his compositions form part of our Living Guru. He is therefore accorded the high honorofic of "Bhagat" - literally, God's Devotee - by Sikhs, as are the other non-Guru contributors to the Guru Granth Sahib.

The sect of Bhagat Ravidas Panthis that follows him honour him as "Guru Ravidas".

He travelled fairly widely and visited Rājasthān, Gujarāt, Āndhra Pradesh, Mahārāshṭra, besides a number of places in the northern India such as Prayāg, Mathurā, Vrindāvan, Haridvār, Guṛgāoṅ and Multān. At most of these places, there are monuments honouring his memory. In his lifetime, he had thousands of followers, including members of the higher castes, among them being Mīrābāī, the Rājput princess.

The hymns of Ravidās included in the Gurū Granth Sāhib fall under rāga - Sirī (1), Gauṛī (5), Āsā (6), Gūjarī (1), Soraṭhi (7), Dhanāsarī (3), Jaitsarī (1), Suhī (3), Bilāval (2), Gauṇḍ (2), Rāmkalī (1), Mārū (2); Kedārā (1), Bhairau (1), Basant (1) and Malhār (3). One of the hymns in rāga Mārū is the same (with a few minor changes) as included in rāga Soraṭhi.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085

Ravidās acknowledged the unicity and omnipresence and omnipotence of God. According to him, the human soul is only a particle of the Divine : the difference between the two is like the difference between the gold and the ornament, the water and the wave (GGS:93).

He rejects distinctions between man and man on the basis of caste or creed, for, as he says, in the world beyond no such differentiations will be acknowledged (GGS: 345). To realize God, which is the ultimate end of human life, man should concentrate on His Name, giving up mere forms and ritualism (GGS: 658, 1106). Birth in a 'low caste' is no hindrance in the way to spiritual development. The only condition required is freedom from duality; all else including pilgrimage to and bathing in the sixty-eight hindu centres is in vain (GGS: 875).



BHAGAT RAVIDAS PANTHIS

by HARJINDER SINGH

In view of the recent tension between Sikhs and the followers of Bhagat Ravidas I want to clarify the position between us Sikhs and the followers of Bhagat Ravidas. Forty sabads of Ravidas are included in the Guru Granth.

‘Guru' Ravidas

The followers of Ravidas call him Guru, which means ‘teacher' or ‘bringer of light into darkness'. For Sikhs the word Guru has a specific meaning, but we should not pick a fight with those who use the term in the more general Indian way. The shabads of Ravidas that are included in the Guru Granth are part of our eternal Guru, and as such Ravidas is part of the Sikh Guru.

The teachings of Ravidas are perfectly in tune with those of the Guru Granth Sahib.

Sudras & Jutts

The followers of Ravidas and Kabir tend be people of low caste. When I visited a friend of mine in a village near Hoshiarpur whose family were of so-called 'low caste', the Sikhs from the local gurdwara dominated by 'jutts' would not greet me, as I was staying with Ravidas panthis, who were deemed to be of a 'low caste'.

Saying to each other that our Guru teaches unity of mankind is not relevant for the Ravidas panthis, as long as Sikhs do not practice what the Guru teaches. When we start practicing the Guru's teachings we can reach out to the Ravidas panthis and share the sabads of our eternal Guru.

Guru Granth Sahib

Because of our ‘respect for the Guru Granth' Sikhs love to fight with those groups that do not give the same importance to the Guru Granth Sahib as we do. Instead of being happy that non-Sikhs read the Guru Granth and see it as an important source of teaching and inspiration, we want to take the Guru Granth away from Ravidas or Námdhari Gurdwaré / temples.

I am very happy that we do not set out to convert others in the way that Christians and Muslims do. But the attitude of many Sikhs is not very open-minded either. The Guru speaks to everybody, the Guru considers everybody who is a serious student of the Guru to be a Sikh. The way of life set out in the Guru Granth Sahib can be followed by all of all ‘dharams'.

Think about these three definitions : 1) a ‘Sikh' is someone who is a serious student of God. 2) A ‘Sikh' is someone who recognises the leadership of the Guru Granth and Guru Panth as ordained by Guru Gobind Singh. 3) A ‘Khalsa' is someone who is totally committed to Guru's teachings and as a sign of that commitment has taken amrit and wears the 5 Ks.

I have been trying to find out what exactly happened in the Ravi Das Gurdwara in Vienna, but neither I nor the people charged to do this by a meeting at the Singh Sabha Gurdwara in Southall, London, U.K., succeeded in this. It is clear that people were wounded and killed, but it is not clear whether the ‘men of violence' were Sikhs, Ravidas panthis or both.

Babé, our common problem

The baba involved is controversial amongst the followers of Ravidas. I heard that the majority of the Ravidas Gurdwaré in the U.K. do not like this baba (which of course is no excuse for killing or wounding him or his cronies).

We have to recognise that we have common problems. Fake holy men can be found amongst all traditions in South Asia, even amongst Muslims in West Panjab or amongst Syrian Christians of Kerala.

I do not want to start a rant about sants, but I do think that Ravidas panthis and Sikhs of good will should join forces and take a stand against the plague of the fake saints.

Caste, the scourge of the sub-continent

I was disappointed by most of the Sikh reactions to the news from Vienna. It is true that a Ravidas Gurdwara is not a mainstream Sikh place of worship, and caste is not part of the teachings of the Sikh Gurus. But Sikhs do not fully realise that Ravidas is part of the Sikh Guru and do not want to admit that caste still plays an important negative part in the ‘Sikh' community.

Caste in some shape or form is practiced amongst followers of almost all religious traditions on the subcontinent. Many of our brothers and sisters of Punjabi background fail to translate ‘seeing God's presence in all' in treating all as equals.

Equality is also a problem in the U.K., where we struggle with the legacy of its rigid class structures and with the present situation where many people are doing quite well, but where there is a growing ‘underclass'.

Sikhs, in the light of Guru's teachings, should see people of low caste, from sink estates, gypsies and travellers or any other group as their sisters and brothers.

If we really practice this we will become better Sikhs and there would be no more need for Ramgarhia or Ravidas Gurdwaré. It is now more than five hundred years after Guru Nanak taught us about One God and One Humanity, are we actually going to adopt these teachings in 2009 ?

[Courtesy: The Encylopaedia of Sikhism and The Man in Blue]

January 30, 2010

 
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Sat Sri Akaal ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085

I have heard that Ravidaasiya community has started a new panth and new granth and their own flag yesterday on the birth anniversary of Bhagat Ravidas from Kaashi.UP.
Details are awaited....

Aman Ji, Excellent post. I agree fully with what you say, my personal opinion on this matter is the Ravidassis have made Our Bhagat into there Guru simply because he was there caste which i think is not right, as far as i know he never claimed to be one, but like you said i agree with you we should all put our petty differances aside and stick together, i always get a feeling there are forces out there who do not like seeing people getting on with one another and are trying to divide our communities making us argue or fight one another. There are a lot of false men claiming to be Holy and are fooling our people in the millions, we should expose and put a stop to it together.

When there is disrespect of Guruji, we should not be quiet, but speak out. There is also a way to express concern and distaste without burning bridges. That part of the message the false babas leave out to create total dependence on their message -- which in the end leads only to tragedy.

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Sat Sri Akal everyone
Have just joined and am compelled to respond to a refreshingly honest thread on this subject
Have had a look at the Jattworld forums as well and would humbly suggest the problem is that too often, Sikhism is replaced by Jattism
If everyone was freely allowed access to all Gurdwaras then there would be no need to have separate temples and practices
My understanding, and please correct me if I say anything wrong, is that Guru Gobind Singh Ji established the practice of changing surnames to "Singh" and "Kaur" to emphasise fraternity and unity and to put an end to any possible grounds for discrimination
Sadly, it is my view that discrimination is rife in the Sikh faith, or at least it is very much so in the UK
However, I do strongly agree that Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ should be completely respected and not altered or manipulated in any way

A most excellent post indeed
Thank you very much - you have gone a long way to restore my faith amongst some followers of this path

I agree with you Seeker Ji & welcome. I was born and live here in the UK. We have separate Temples example Ramgariya, Ravidass and so forth. This caste buisness is like a Cancer disease. With Cancer there can sometimes be a cure, but with caste from what i have seen and experianced it seems it will never go. I love Sikhi and am very proud to be a part of it, but i would not look at myself and look at others in a low way. That seems to be the problem when people start to think they are some how superior because of there caste, it is one thing to be proud of whom you are and another thing to look down at people because of caste. It should not be allowed in Sikhi as it is forbidden but people seem to not let go. We would not have separate Temples if caste was not the issue. It is also the biggest downfall and with it these Deras and fake Babass follow like Leaches.

There only is one Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ and there always will be!!

That said, I think it is fair to note that enlightened souls whose contributions have been incorporated into Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ had a following in their own right and a range of teachings prior to their inclusion in Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ

And ultimately, I would suggest those teachings are for the benefit of all

And due to caste pressures which we have already touched on, it is not unreasonable for those followers to have continued

As you may have gathered, I am a Chamar but my parents hail from Punjab and we have been brought up in the Sikh tradition

As I said earlier, no one should absolutely not in any way try to undermine Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ nor should there be an edited version of Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ in our temples. We can have a book of teachings of "our Saint" (note use of inverted commas as the Saints are for the benefit of everyone) but we should not call it Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ or associate it in such a way

As to the distinction of Bhagat, Saint, Guru etc, I would offer you this view

Jesus is accepted as a real individual in both Christianity (obviously!) and Islam religions. However, the distinction is that the Christians regard him as the Son of God and co-creator of the Universe, whereas the Muslims regard him as a great Prophet. There is even a story that Jesus survived the crucifixion, continued to preach, travelled to India and is now buried in Kashmir!!

So, guess my point is that different religions can venerate different saints in different and legitimate ways
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085

We can disagree on that but important thing is to have mutual respect and not have arguments of the type "My Guru is better than your Guru!" etc

Nor should we take any action that demeans or insults others. I can understand why some would think any attempt to extract passages from
Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ would be equivalent to cutting Guru's limbs. And I can understand why people would be upset by that
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085

But the origins of those same teachings and the rest of their canon should also be acknowledged and it is not the intention to insult or undermine Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ

Just my personal view folks...happy to discuss further

Must say this is refreshing....burning the midnight oil right now studying for exams so welcome the break!!!

Seeker Ji very good post, i just noticed you are from England too i just saw that flag, i still do not know how to put mine on, anyway like i said Castism is one of the biggest problems facing Sikhism today, i judge a person not from their cast, colour or creed but by their characteristic and personality. Unfortunatly not everyone thinks like that i have noticed. Many claim that Caste is against their religion but the same people use it and hide behind it over and over again. Hypocracy is the right word. You will like it here see you around Brother.

Seeker9 ji

Your words:

"Nor should we take any action that demeans or insults others. I can understand why some would think any attempt to extract passages from Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ would be equivalent to cutting Guru's limbs. And I can understand why people would be upset by that

But the origins of those same teachings and the rest of their canon should also be acknowledged and it is not the intention to insult or undermine Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ?"

The statement is confusing to me, and almost contradictory.

What do you mean by the origins of "those same teachings" that "have not been acknowledged?"

Which teachings have not been acknowledged? Who has not acknowledged them?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085

What do you mean by "the rest of their canon?" Are you referring to the rest of the canon of writings by Sant Ravidas that are not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? And who do you mean by "their?"

or,

Are you saying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as written is not a complete Sikh scripture?

Quite rightly you state that any "attempt to extract passages" from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is insulting to Sikhs because it is like "cutting the Guru's limbs." You have also said you can see why Sikhs would be upset if Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were undermined. But this is confusing. Any suggestion that there is some canon beyond Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that makes Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji complete is also insulting.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085

Please do clarify.

If this is a conversation that is meaningful for members of any Sant Ravidas panth, do we need to start a new thread and place it in Interfaith dialogs?

Naranyanjot Ji, i am sorry i have just read back my own posts and they have gone off topic a little, that bit what you asked Seeker i did not understand properly in all honesty, but only he himself can answer that, i do see what you are saying it is a little confusing. However the rest of the post i agreed with.