Bhagat Ravidas of The Guru Granth

Naranyanjot Ji, i am sorry i have just read back my own posts and they have gone off topic a little, that bit what you asked Seeker i did not understand properly in all honesty, but only he himself can answer that, i do see what you are saying it is a little confusing. However the rest of the post i agreed with.
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Dear Narayanjot Ji andUgsbay Ji


Apologies for any confusion
I am not saying Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ is in anyway incomplete
I will attempt to clarify:


“But the origins of those same teachings and the rest of their canon should also be acknowledged and it is not the intention to insult or undermine Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ?"


The teachings of a number of saints have been included in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ. Does that mean from that point forward they became the exclusive “Property” of Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ and can never be used by those who would follow those Saints in their own right?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bhagats/29085-bhagat-ravidas-of-the-guru-granth.html


There are other religious movements based on the teachings of Guru Ravidass Ji and Sant Kabir Ji. Are followers of those Saints and their teachings directly insulting Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ just by following those teachings??


The point about “cutting limbs” was that if anyone was asking for passages to be removed from Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ then that would be deeply insulting and totally unacceptable. Or any imitation or disrespect of Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ would be deeply insulting and totally unacceptable.


Re “acknowledgement” my point was, the existence of Kabir-panthis or followers of Guru Ravidass Ji should not be seen as an insult to Sikhism or Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ but as an alternative path. And there are many paths and religions out there with some commonality between them but still different in their own right
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085


Does that make more sense??

Dear Narayanjot Ji and Ugsbay JI


I am not saying Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ is in anyway incomplete
Apologies for any confusion
I will attempt to clarify:


“But the origins of those same teachings and the rest of their canon should also be acknowledged and it is not the intention to insult or undermine Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ?"


The teachings of a number of saints have been included in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ. Does that mean from that point forward they are now the exclusive “Property” of Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ and can never be used by those who would follow those Saints in their own right?


There are other religious movements based on the teachings of Guru Ravidass Ji and Sant Kabir Ji


Are followers of those Saints and their teachings directly insulting Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ??


The point about “cutting limbs” was that if anyone was asking for passages to be removed from Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ then that would be deeply insulting and completely unacceptable. Or any imitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ or disrespect of it would be deeply insulting and completely unacceptable
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085



“the rest of their canon should also be acknowledged”



my point then is to acknwoledge the existence of Saints and their teachings and that the existence of Kabir-panthis or followers of Guru Ravidass Ji should not be seen as an insult to Sikhism or Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ but as an alternative path.


I hope this is clearer and would really appreciate your point of view


Thanks

Seeker9 ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085

Thank you for clarifying your statements. It really is important for Sikhs everywhere, and members of SPN. to uphold the unbroken and complete transmission of Shabad Guru from Guru Nanak to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj as final, sole, and everlasting Guru without any qualifications whatsoever. Message unqualified. There is no other Guru. There is no other "scripture."

Dear Narayanjot Ji
There should also be a universal message that there is no exclusivity and no turning away of seekers from Gurudwaras by virtue of their caste
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085
As long as that continues then there will be different temples.
Everyone has the right to seek enlightenment and no one has the right to say this is the only true way but we are not going to let you join us!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085
Personally, I love going to the Gurudwara and just sitting there and listening to the Shabads but I also know I am not welcome in all Gurudwaras
So I would humbly suggest any message of promoting one true path needs to also include a message of genuinely welcoming everyone to join that path

Seeker9 ji

in an earlier post I asked some questions and that was my attempt to redirect the conversation. I was "seeking" a diplomatic way for all of us writing in this thread to avoid placing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in the middle of yet another controversy where panth Ravidass and Sikhism are at odds.

It did not work. Therefore, allow me be very direct.

The integrity of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the only Guru of the Sikhs cannot be compromised in this forum. That means that any other controversies that might qualify its unique and fundamental importance will not be permitted. There are no other canons. Authorship of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is clear.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085

No one here has disputed the evils of the caste system. No one here will deny that Guru Nanak and all our Gurus spoke against the evils of the caste system. No one here will argue that gurdwaras should not exclude by caste.

The fact that caste persists within Sikhism as an important issue is a cultural matter. There is no need to combine issues of caste with issues of other "canons" in the same article. The fact that you did so made me wonder as admin whether a needless controversy was about to be inserted into this thread.

Let us stipulate that for Sikhs Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the unbroken and complete transmission of Shabad Guru from Guru Nanak to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj as final, sole, and everlasting Guru without any qualifications whatsoever.

Let us discuss the evils of the caste system separately in a different thread as a cultural and historical matter. Let us discuss controversies between Sikhism and the Ravidassi panth in an appropriate thread.

And if this thread does veer in a direction that in anyway undermines the Guru Granth I will take action as needed. Please know that I have spent the night considering the situation, and my remarks are not made in haste.

Dear Narayanjot Ji
I appreciate your candour and apologise if I have caused you stress
You will hopefully appreciate from my posts that I have never said anything derogatory about Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ so happy to agree with your clear message about status of Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ
This thread started off with a historical context then there was a
a comment about why their is another path following Guru Ravidass Ji
I was responding to that comment on this thread and the point I was making, hopefully in a diplomatic way as well, is that if their was no division in the first place, there would be no need for alternative paths as Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ says it all in crystal clear fashion
However, the fact that there is division has forced those seeking enligthenment on to an alternative path. As long as that sort of division exists then I am not going to deride anyone for following that path as ultimately all they are doing is looking for spiritual enlightenment
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085
I have never said anything disrespectful about Sri Guru Granth Sahib JiJ
I do stand by my statement that I think it is fundamentally wrong for anyone to proclaim one true path and then at the same time exclude others. I say it because I have experienced it and been hurt by it
If you want to move to another thread than that is fine, although I think I have probably said enough already!!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=29085
Thanks with respect

Thanks and let's move on or perhaps back to a discussion of Sant Ravidas. Clearly the caste system was despicable in the eyes of our Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not support its practice.