In Love with Ignorance: Reflections on the Bani of Guru Ram Das and Sant Ravidas

Gurfateh
"you" of das or "i" of das is eaten by Mahakal.

Das will not die again, as death of das is dead, killed by death of death ie Mahakal.

Das is sorry for writing anything in emotions.

 
Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh!

Mahakaal itself is spiritual death. Spiritual death doesn't eat spiritual death. It only increases the level of spiritual death. I see that you have an agenda to misinform and mislead the Sikhs here. Don't try to be clever. It won't work with me.




Is there you in above quote? Yes, there is. What are you going to do about the you in Gurbani? Vijaydeep, you can only twist meanings of things so much and try to be clever so much that you fall into trap. Above quote is clearly talking about the person and not about killing I. I dies when maayaa takes or I dies when Gurmat takes over. When maayaa takes over, it is Mahakaal which is spiritual death and when it is Gurmat, it is death of maayaa.

Also, if you in above quote is God and Mahakaal is also God. God won't eat God? Do you ever think if you ever make sense or does claiming to be from low caste give you freedom to speak as falsehood as you like? By the way, there is no caste system in the Sikh faith. People like you, who keep on claiming to look at things based on caste, bring in the caste system.

Gurfateh
Dear Brother first let us take care of thing Caste.

Should not Sikh attract the converts from outcaste as deemed by hindus ? Off course if they are converted to us they do not longer remain outcaste.

But we have to communicate to them dear brother, about formless God.
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
रामकली महला ५ ॥
Rāmkalī mėhlā 5.
Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

ਜਪਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਲਾਲੁ ॥
जपि गोबिंदु गोपाल लालु ॥
Jap gobinḏ gopāl lāl.
Meditate on the Lord of the Universe, the Beloved Lord of the World.

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਤੂ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਨ ਖਾਈ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
राम नाम सिमरि तू जीवहि फिरि न खाई महा कालु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bhagats/27023-love-ignorance-reflections-bani-guru-ram.html
Rām nām simar ṯū jīvėh fir na kẖā▫ī mahā kāl. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Meditating in remembrance on the Lord's Name, you shall live, and the Great Death shall not consume you ever again. ||1||Pause||

ਕੋਟਿ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਇਓ ॥
कोटि जनम भ्रमि भ्रमि भ्रमि आइओ ॥
Kot janam bẖaram bẖaram bẖaram ā▫i▫o.
Through millions of incarnations, you have come, wandering, wandering, wandering.

ਬਡੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੧॥
बडै भागि साधसंगु पाइओ ॥१॥
Badai bẖāg sāḏẖsang pā▫i▫o. ||1||
By the highest destiny, you found the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. ||1||

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥
बिनु गुर पूरे नाही उधारु ॥
Bin gur pūre nāhī uḏẖār.
Without the Perfect Guru, no one is saved.

ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਏਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥੨॥੧੧॥
बाबा नानकु आखै एहु बीचारु ॥२॥११॥
Bābā Nānak ākẖai ehu bīcẖār. ||2||11||
This is what Baba Nanak says, after deep reflection. ||2||11||
dear brother do you think that this Mahakal is of Shaktas ?Which is in fact myth.

Does there anything else exist other than God as per Sikhism.
ਪੰਨਾ 48, ਸਤਰ 2
ਮਾਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਜੀਵਾਲਦਾ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਸਾਥਿ ॥
मारि आपे जीवालदा अंतरि बाहरि साथि ॥
Mār āpe jīvālḏā anṯar bāhar sāth.
He Himself bestows life and death; He is with us, within and beyond.
ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salokਪੰਨਾ 125, ਸਤਰ 19
ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪਿ ਜੀਵਾਏ ॥
आपे मारे आपि जीवाए ॥
Āpe māre āp jīvā▫e.
He Himself kills, and He Himself revives.
ਮਃ 3 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salokਪੰਨਾ 155, ਸਤਰ 9
ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭ ਰਾਸਿ ਤਿਸੈ ਕੀ ਮਾਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਜੀਵਾਲੇ ॥੬॥੧॥੧੩॥
जीउ पिंडु सभ रासि तिसै की मारि आपे जीवाले ॥६॥१॥१३॥
Jī▫o pind sabẖ rās ṯisai kī mār āpe jīvāle. ||6||1||13||
This soul and body all are His. He Himself kills, and brings back to life. ||6||1||13||
ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salokਪੰਨਾ 315, ਸਤਰ 1
ਰਹਦੇ ਖੁਹਦੇ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਮਾਰਿਅਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਆਹਰੁ ॥
रहदे खुहदे निंदक मारिअनु करि आपे आहरु ॥
Rahḏe kẖuhḏe ninḏak māri▫an kar āpe āhar.
By their own efforts, the slanderers have destroyed all remnants of themselves.
ਮਃ 5 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salokਪੰਨਾ 350, ਸਤਰ 5
ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪੇ ਛੋਡੈ ਆਪੇ ਲੇਵੈ ਦੇਇ ॥
आपे मारे आपे छोडै आपे लेवै देइ ॥
Āpe māre āpe cẖẖodai āpe levai ḏe▫e.
He Himself kills, and He Himself emancipates; He Himself gives and takes.
ਮਃ 1 - view Shabad/Paurhi/SalokFrom the above examples, we find God, does all death. So God only act as super death to those who God only not let have remembrance of God.

ਪੰਨਾ 485, ਸਤਰ 2
ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥
सभु गोबिंदु है सभु गोबिंदु है गोबिंद बिनु नही कोई ॥
Sabẖ gobinḏ hai sabẖ gobinḏ hai gobinḏ bin nahī ko▫ī.
God is everything, God is everything. Without God, there is nothing at all.
ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


Lastly Brother, if you are beaten by some one, will you das as told in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ?

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜੋ ਤੈ ਮਾਰਨਿ ਮੁਕੀਆਂ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਨ ਮਾਰੇ ਘੁੰਮਿ ॥
फरीदा जो तै मारनि मुकीआं तिन्हा न मारे घुमि ॥
Farīḏā jo ṯai māran mukī▫āʼn ṯinĥā na māre gẖumm.
Fareed, do not turn around and strike those who strike you with their fists.

ਆਪਨੜੈ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਪੈਰ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਦੇ ਚੁੰਮਿ ॥੭॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=27023
आपनड़ै घरि जाईऐ पैर तिन्हा दे चुमि ॥७॥
Āpnaṛai gẖar jā▫ī▫ai pair ṯinĥā ḏe cẖumm. ||7||
Kiss their feet, and return to your own home. ||7||
(Ang 1378)

Brother over here as you talked off the topic so das was compelled to answer you.

Akal Bless.

To begin with: There has been no mention in the thread until today about the the nirgun/sargun swaroop of God. The tuks chosen in the above post do not address the issue of the "identity" of Mahakaal. Each of them is taken out of context and my reading is that each of them is relevant to ideas found in the shabads from which they were taken and are generally irrelevant to the original poster's intention.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=27023
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=27023

So bottom line. The next post that contains a collection of isolated tuks will be deleted automatically. And continued discussion of Mahakaal will be moved to another thread.

Fair warning

Thanks: Narayanjot Kaur.

A number of posts have been moved to create a new thread
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=27023

Nirguna, Sarguna: A Debate

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-s...-a-debate.html

Jo Tai Maaran Mukeeaa is also translated wrong. Read the whole shabad and you will know that it has nothing to do with physical mukees or punches.

Some people are never satisfied. Despite having a beautiful and best wife at home still they look outside thus are drowned.

Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni

People love bajjar kurehits and love granths that promote bajjar kurehits.

This is an admin note: The original poster titled this thread as Dasam Granth, but nothing in the original post is from Dasam Granth. All the shabads are from Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The message indicated by the title therefore is somewhat misleading/puzzling. Please note that the thread is not in the Bachittar Natak section. So treat this thread as if it is pertinent to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=27023

The title has been changed to reflect the thoughts expressed by Sant Ravidas in an earlier post


ਅਲਪ ਸੁਖ ਛਾਡਿ ਪਰਮ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵਾ ॥
अलप सुख छाडि परम सुख पावा ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=27023
Alap sukẖ cẖẖād param sukẖ pāvā.
Renouncing the shallow pleasures of the world, she obtains the supreme delight.


ਤਬ ਇਹ ਤ੍ਰੀਅ ਓੁਹੁ ਕੰਤੁ ਕਹਾਵਾ ॥੪੧॥
तब इह त्रीअ ओहु कंतु कहावा ॥४१॥
Ŧab ih ṯarī▫a ohu kanṯ kahāvā. ||41||
Then, she is the soul-bride; He is called her Husband Lord. ||41||

Guru Ram Das (Ang 342)

ਮਾਧੋ ਅਬਿਦਿਆ ਹਿਤ ਕੀਨ ॥
maadhho abidhiaa hith keen ||
O Lord, he is in love with ignorance.

ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦੀਪ ਮਲੀਨ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
bibaek dheep maleen ||1|| rehaao ||
His lamp of clear wisdom has grown dim. ||1||Pause||

(Sant Ravidas, And 486)