Who Was The Guru Of Sahib Kabir?

who was the guru of sahib kabir..............as some shows ramanand ji.but i want to know who was the actual guru of sahib kabir...day there r lots of people who want to know dis....
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interesting question...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/bhagats/22222-who-was-the-guru-sahib-kabir.html
i dont know the answer...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22222
but i do have a few related questions of my own...
IF indeed Ramanand Ji is the Guru of Kabir ji..then WHO was the actual Guru of Ramanand Ji..and before that....
2. Who was the Guru of....Namdev Ji, Ravidass Ji..Sadhana ji..Farid Ji...bheekhan ji.. and their Guru before them...
Gyani jarnail singh

Gyani ji

Again, this is one of those puzzles, the answers to which get lost in the fog of history. From what I have read of the life of Santji Kabeer -- yes -- Ramanand was his teacher, guru. But these writings -- the scholarly ones anyway -- always admit to the problem of having to depend on spotty evidence and evidence that is difficult to authenticate or to separate from the oral tradition which has truth but also legend mixed in. Sant Kabeer's biography remains something of a mystery.

This is a very good source of information about Sant Kabeer, Kabir, Linda Hess, Linda Beth Hess, Shukdev Singh, Śukadeva Siṃha, The Bijak of Kabir (2002), Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195148762

Your other questions. Can they be answered. I don't know. It is worth doing some research to see if there is anything available. But let me relate something very interesting. I read this the other day, and it has nothing to do with Kabeer, but a lot to do with the problems faced by researchers who study the Vedantic traditiona.

The vedas originally were passed down orally. When they finally were written down, it was in an ancient form of Sanskrit which is very different from the Sanskrit of the classical period. The manuscripts which are used today are written in the more recent, classical Sanskrit. This means that they were translated hundreds of years ago by scholars who rendered the ancient writings into a classical language. So now the well known problems of translation enter the equation. And modern scholars who know both forms of Sanskrit are finding numerous occasions where the later translations cannot be accurate. One source I read identified examples in the Rig Veda. The researcher suggested that later forms of Vedantic philosophy were focused on particular understandings of the vedas; for example, an emphasis on making sacrifices. And so translators seem to have changed the earlier writings here and there to conform with their theories and biases. And this is translating from Sanskrit to Sanskrit -- not to a completely different language!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22222
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22222

One generation after another layers its particular biases on top of much older philosophies. And the result -- well history itself distorts history. So maybe the truth of the lineage of Kabeer, or Ramanand, or anyone else can never be known with certainty.

And I just found this. Bhagat Ramanand was a follower of Bhagat Raghavacharya of the Ramanuj Movement.
Bhagat_Ramanand

sat shri akal,
thankz for reply...yes as scriptures saying ramanand was his guru.but ramanand was following vashnav mat.so how he can be his real or true guru.please reply this..

jio,

This is not a simple question with a simple answer. Some, not all, of the hymns of Kabeer, and some but not all of the hymns of Ramanand, were included in the original Adi Granth. The decision of which hymns to include was made by Sri Guru Arjan Dev Maharaj. The bhagats, and there were 14 in all, whose hymns were included in the Adi Granth, also wrote many hymns that were not chosen by the Guru. These hymns (the ones that were not included) are part of other panths. They are not part of Sikhism.

However, those hymns that were selected for Adi Granth were included because Guru Arjan Dev saw in them the jyot of the Satguru who speaks through the 10 Gurus and through Sri Guru Granth Sahib today. In their hymns Kabeer and Ramanand are speaking with the Divine jyot. Insofar as these hymns speak in the same voice and with the same jyot, they are part of the Guru and we learn from them. Guru is teacher. We learn from a teacher, a Guru. The Guru is Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Very true and very interesting....some Vaisnavite groups (in order to prove that Sikhism is indeed Hinduism), state that Guru Nanak was a follower of Bhaghat Kabir (not true).

How do we know this, see
www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/kabir.html

In this Kabir ji describes the woman as " a Black Cobra" not to be trusted, wheras our Guru's completely say the opposite:

page 473

Mehl� 1.
First Mehl:

From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married.

Woman becomes his friend; through woman, the future generations come.

When his woman dies, he seeks another woman; to woman he is bound.

So why call her bad? From her, kings are born.

From woman, woman is born; without woman, there would be no one at all.

O Nanak, only the True Lord is without a woman.

That mouth which praises the Lord continually is blessed and beautiful.

O Nanak, those faces shall be radiant in the Court of the True Lord. ||2||

Randip ji

Your own response is interesting! And thanks for the historical reference. The Chumar sub-caste historically followed many Sikh devotional practices but also there is also worship of Bhagat Ravidas. They see no contradiction, read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, conduct akand path, and at the same time perform a Hindu arti and claim Ravidas as their personal Saint. The followers of Ravidas claim that Ravidas gave Guru Nanak copies of his hymns.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22222
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=22222

There is an entire belief system called the Kabeer Panth whose Granth is the entire collection of hymns of Bhagat Kabeer. Again their devotional worship includes monotheistic belief, and other concepts found in Sikhism. But it is very very different.

Both panths have gurdwaras around the world.

ya ur saying ryt....but this the main question ???who hold all this saints which u mention ....i mean who`s the guru ???

The Guru is Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib -- if you are a Sikh. Please read the previous comments.

mesweetcute Ji, the answer to your question is very simple. The actual Guru of Sahib Kabir Ji is 'God', just like it is for every human. There is no difference between a saint, a brahmgyani, a true Guru, Guru Granth Sahib Ji and God. Once the Light merges into Itself, no identity remains any more. mesweetcute ji, you will not find many who want to or like to believe this truth, including many of those who read and sing Gurbani several times a day. It is the ultimate Truth, very hard to digest for many, as it requires the identity to be dissolved-which is a major roadblock for today's fake baba mundlees out there throughout the world, (who will offer gold and money to them, if people will start believing that God is Guru and Guru is God-no difference?). Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji is telling us this truth multiple times, if one wants to actually hear it, believe it, and live it.
The truth is right there-for the whole humanity-one can use it or loose it.

Thanks a lot for bringing up this question mesweetcute ji.

ek noor te sab jag upjia