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Sikhism and Atheism: A Philosophical Discourse

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30-Jun-2009, 00:27 AM
Astroboy's Avatar Astroboy Astroboy is offline
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Sikhism and Atheism: A Philosophical Discourse

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Posts on this thread were moved from the thread, Why Sikhism? (Narayanjot Kaur)


Hi Ryadd

I think Atheism and Sikhism are one and the same because it doesn't make a difference if you believe in a God or not.
The sun is still going to shine tomorrow; the moon is still going to orbit earth regardless of what your belief system is.
Sikhism wants you to be the observer of these daily miracles. You need not change anything just observe and appreciate.

Guru Nanak's shabad:

ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ
रागु धनासरी महला १ ॥
Rāg ḏẖanāsrī mėhlā 1.
Raag Dhanaasree, First Mehl:

ਗਗਨ ਮੈ ਥਾਲੁ ਰਵਿ ਚੰਦੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਬਨੇ ਤਾਰਿਕਾ ਮੰਡਲ ਜਨਕ ਮੋਤੀ
गगन मै थालु रवि चंदु दीपक बने तारिका मंडल जनक मोती ॥
Gagan mai thāl rav cẖanḏ ḏīpak bane ṯārikā mandal janak moṯī.
Upon that cosmic plate of the sky, the sun and the moon are the lamps. The stars and their orbs are the studded pearls.

ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ ॥੧॥
धूपु मलआनलो पवणु चवरो करे सगल बनराइ फूलंत जोती ॥१॥
Ḏẖūp mal▫ānlo pavaṇ cẖavro kare sagal banrā▫e fūlanṯ joṯī. ||1||
The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense, and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||

ਕੈਸੀ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ
कैसी आरती होइ ॥
Kaisī ārṯī ho▫e.
What a beautiful Aartee, lamp-lit worship service this is!

ਭਵ ਖੰਡਨਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਰਤੀ
भव खंडना तेरी आरती ॥
Bẖav kẖandnā ṯerī ārṯī.
O Destroyer of Fear, this is Your Ceremony of Light.

ਅਨਹਤਾ ਸਬਦ ਵਾਜੰਤ ਭੇਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
अनहता सबद वाजंत भेरी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Anhaṯā sabaḏ vājanṯ bẖerī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad is the vibration of the temple drums. ||1||Pause||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/atheism/25737-sikhism-and-atheism-a-philosophical-discourse.html

ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਨੈਨ ਨਨ ਨੈਨ ਹਹਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਉ ਸਹਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਨਾ ਏਕ ਤਹੀ
सहस तव नैन नन नैन हहि तोहि कउ सहस मूरति नना एक तोही ॥
Sahas ṯav nain nan nain hėh ṯohi ka▫o sahas mūraṯ nanā ek ṯohī.
You have thousands of eyes, and yet You have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet You do not have even one.

ਸਹਸ ਪਦ ਬਿਮਲ ਨਨ ਏਕ ਪਦ ਗੰਧ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਗੰਧ ਇਵ ਚਲਤ ਮੋਹੀ ॥੨॥
सहस पद बिमल नन एक पद गंध बिनु सहस तव गंध इव चलत मोही ॥२॥
Sahas paḏ bimal nan ek paḏ ganḏẖ bin sahas ṯav ganḏẖ iv cẖalaṯ mohī. ||2||
You have thousands of Lotus Feet, and yet You do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This Play of Yours entrances me. ||2||

ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸੋਇ
सभ महि जोति जोति है सोइ ॥
Sabẖ mėh joṯ joṯ hai so▫e.
Amongst all is the Light-You are that Light.

ਤਿਸ ਦੈ ਚਾਨਣਿ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਹੋਇ
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25737
तिस दै चानणि सभ महि चानणु होइ ॥
Ŧis ḏai cẖānaṇ sabẖ mėh cẖānaṇ ho▫e.
By this Illumination, that Light is radiant within all.

ਗੁਰ ਸਾਖੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ
गुर साखी जोति परगटु होइ ॥
Gur sākẖī joṯ pargat ho▫e.
Through the Guru's Teachings, the Light shines forth.

ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੁ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥
जो तिसु भावै सु आरती होइ ॥३॥
Jo ṯis bẖāvai so ārṯī ho▫e. ||3||
That which is pleasing to Him is the lamp-lit worship service. ||3||

ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਮਕਰੰਦ ਲੋਭਿਤ ਮਨੋ ਅਨਦਿਨ ਮੋਹਿ ਆਹੀ ਪਿਆਸਾ
हरि चरण कवल मकरंद लोभित मनो अनदिनो मोहि आही पिआसा ॥
Har cẖaraṇ kaval makranḏ lobẖiṯ mano anḏino mohi āhī pi▫āsā.
My mind is enticed by the honey-sweet Lotus Feet of the Lord. Day and night, I thirst for them.

ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਜਲੁ ਦੇਹਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਰਿੰਗ ਕਉ ਹੋਇ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਇ ਵਾਸਾ ॥੪॥੩॥
क्रिपा जलु देहि नानक सारिंग कउ होइ जा ते तेरै नाइ वासा ॥४॥३॥
Kirpā jal ḏėh Nānak sāring ka▫o ho▫e jā ṯe ṯerai nā▫e vāsā. ||4||3||
Bestow the Water of Your Mercy upon Nanak, the thirsty song-bird, so that he may come to dwell in Your Name. ||4||3||




 
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 30-Jun-2009, 00:38 AM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Why Sikhism?

No! That is not. Please forgive me -- but there is a God in Sikhism. The persistent questions--- What is the Nature of this God? And what is our relationship with this God? One can say that this God is not incarnate. But one cannot say that this God has no presence.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25737

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25737
ikoankaar sathnaam karathaa purakh nirabho niravair akaal moorath ajoonee saibhan gurprasaadh||
One Universal Creator God.The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace

If we do not like the use of the word "God" in this translation then for karathaa purakh we can substitute the Doer/Creator who Abides within All Things.


Definition of atheism
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 30-Jun-2009, 00:46 AM
Astroboy's Avatar Astroboy Astroboy is offline
ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
 
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Sikhism and Atheism: A philosophical discourse

The sun is always shining whether it is day or night. That's the reality.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25737
From one perspective we say the sun has set - from the earth perspective.
But from the cosmic perspective, the sun never sets.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 30-Jun-2009, 00:48 AM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Why Sikhism?

NamJap ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25737

Once again forgive me -- Not an answer that convinces.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-Jul-2009, 07:01 AM
KulwantK's Avatar KulwantK KulwantK is offline
 
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Re: Why Sikhism?

Hello Namjap,
I still do not understand how you can think that atheism and Sikhism are one and the same. Please explain further-much further.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-Jul-2009, 12:02 PM
Astroboy's Avatar Astroboy Astroboy is offline
ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
 
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Re: Why Sikhism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KulwantK View Post
Hello Namjap,
I still do not understand how you can think that atheism and Sikhism are one and the same. Please explain further-much further.

The sakhi of throwing water to the west is one.

There are many shabads which reflect my assumption that athiesm and sikhism are one and the same. Of course many atheists today were once followers of religions which conditioned them by strong traditional beliefs. Hence, my approach is not dealing with external facts alone but the psychology of the human mind.

It does not even matter if you believe there is a sun or not. What matters is if you are affected by it. Having a doubt about the existence of God isn't going to change anything. If you shut your eyes, the sun does not disappear. Because the sun is the objective truth and shutting your vision on the sun is a subjective reality.

The flow of time varies one location to another location.
Hence the term: the law of relativity.


Here's an article which will help you get out of fixation. What is fixation? Will discuss it in another thread.
The Law of Relativity
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-Jul-2009, 13:36 PM
Astroboy's Avatar Astroboy Astroboy is offline
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Re: Why Sikhism?

John Smith from Atheist Society Writes About Sikhism
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-Jul-2009, 16:21 PM
KulwantK's Avatar KulwantK KulwantK is offline
 
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Sikhism and Atheism: A philosophical discourse

Dear Namjaap:

You claim I am in fixation? How do you define "fixation"? How would you presume to know whether I or anyone else is in "fixation"? Does that mean you think everyone here on this forum is in fixation?

What are your qualifications that you think we should be recognizing and honoring? Where are you published to acclaim?

Do you hold a Doctorate in Physics, and if so, where could one get a copy of your work? Surely, if so, you are published! Do you have any idea of Quantum Physics, or have you even heard of it?

Have you proposed any hypotheses and/or theories that have been thoroughly tested, and if so, how so, and by what recognized institutions and by which recognized experts?

Have you engaged in extensive studies of the human mind?
Have you studied at the Havistock Insitute? The Sorbonne? The Khalsa College? MIT? The Vedic Universities in India?

Have you studied Basic Psychology, the Psychology of Religion, Abnormal Psychology, the Psychology of the Adolescent? Aging and its effects?

Are you an expert or classed as an expert witness in Psychology, Human Behavoir, Psycopathology and/or Sociopathology? If so, by which intitutions or courts?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25737

How many economic and political systems have you extensively studied- by extensive, I mean at least several years' worth, to get any true perspective.

Do you, in fact, hold any degrees, and if so, what are they, from which institutions, and what was your grade point average, and did you do all of your own work, or did you pay people to write your papers for you?

You have obviously never gotten the point of the throwing the water towards the west, to use something you have brought up. It would appear from your posts that you have allowed your own point of view to very deeply affect what shabads you have read, thereby running the very real risk of totally missing the points of the shabads.

What, exactly, are your qualifications for judging me or anyone else, for that matter?

How do you see yourself, and why are you engaging on the line of enquiry you have?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25737

What are your priorities? What are your goals by posting on this forum? What do you hope to gain?

Are you looking to provoke people to study their responses? Are you working on a paper right now?

And finally, Are you really Happy?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-Jul-2009, 22:25 PM
Astroboy's Avatar Astroboy Astroboy is offline
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Re: Why Sikhism?

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KulwantK Ji,

I am not up to arguments here. My humble request to you is to answer the original post so that all can benefit from it.

And no you are not in fixation in any way. i was not referring to you but to everyone in general.
Eventhough you have misunderstood my intentions, I am the one apologizing here.

MITHAT NIVI NANAKA, GUNN CHAN GI YAI YA TAT.

Quote:
How do you define "fixation"?
Here's an interesting write up on fixation
The Fixation of Belief
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