Sangat Jio
Hope no one will mind my disagreement with Amarpal ji who has totally distorted the Guru Message!
( quote)My understanding:
In this sentence Guru Sahib conveys a lot to me.
Guru is the one who teaches a person. During the lifetime of our Gurus, Guru Sahibs themselves were the Gurus. In my context, Sri Guru Granth Sahib is my Guru. What the term Satguru means in my context, I have to understand.
My mental deliberations on this issue tell me that the essence of the teachings of my Guru - Sri Guru Granth Sahib - is the Satguru for me. When I fully realise the entire essence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, then only the Satguru is realised. When the essence has been realised, the Guru leaves and ‘The Sat’ remains.With this understanding, I approach to learn the meaning of sentence under study. It is clear. Guru Sahib tells me that the Banee is not ripe for assimilation unless it’s essence, the truth, the learning is fully understood and realised in one’s own being. Till I reach that stage, the Banee is Kachee. ( quote from Amarpal ji)
Respected Amarpal ji, ripe fruit is ripe, it depends who eats it, if the person who eats it doesn’t understand the taste (and enjoy), it does not mean, fruit is not ripe. Humbly I urge you not use these words like” Kachee” for Bani of Guru.
Just see the sentence, it is a combination of word, which has a literal meaning. That is how it will look to any new comer. When we live with it and look for the meaning contained in it, a different picture starts emerging. The sentence ceases to be just a text; it becomes a realisable learning. When I reach this stage of true understanding, the Banee becomes Pakky for me.
Absolutely not, even without some ones understanding it is still “PAKKEE”, problem lies with the person who fails to understand it. Guru defines it very well. Sir, had you kept in mind what Guru ji says in Pouri 23, you wouldn’t have come to this imaginative conclusion.( I shall bring that too)
Here you see the way Guru Sahib has conveyed his message. Guru Sahib has used an analogy.
Kindly explain the analogy as per your understanding.
The Banee was, is and will always remain the same,
Well said. That is a fact, only change occurs in readers understanding …..
but transformation is taking place in me. From the literal meaning, I am going beyond, I am realising the deeper meaning. In fact, maturity is dawning on me, the Banee was always there as it is and so it will be. Changes are taking place in me, in my understanding of it, and not in the Banee. Guru Sahib who knew the relative nature of this world has used this element to convey the message to me.
You are admitting here that Bani is the same but surprisingly your understanding now seems making Bani Pakkee from Kachee that is the fall no one should take either by your illusion or other limitations.
Till I remain spiritually immature the same Banee remains Kachee (not ripe) for me.
No, actually Bani is the same, absolutely the same; however, your understanding is in change- process, it could be wrong but not the Bani because when you honor Bani of Guru as “ Kachee” its implication goes to judging Bani of Guru( you already admitted)
When I become spiritually mature, the same Banee becomes Pakky (ripe) for me
No, it was “Pakkee”, again it is only your change in your understanding that is affected.
. This maturity brings with it a new way of looking at the Banee. This is the stage at which the essence, the truth, the element of learning contained in Banee can be realised.
Let’s see if that is proved true. Here are your words:
Banee remains as it is. It is my spiritual evolution, my maturity, my understanding of it, that makes it Kachee or otherwise.
Amarpal jio, again, Bani is not in change, it cannot have opposite adjectives just because of one person’s opinion. Lets revisit it
2. bwxI q kcI siqgurU bwJhu hor kcI bwxI ] banee ta kachee satguroo baajhahu hor kachee banee.
With kachee (not ripe, not fit for assimilation) banee, Satguru is missed, and more kachee banee is created.
Amarpal ji, here, there is no indication of “Guru being missed” in Guru Vaak, If “Bajhon” you use strictly as” without” then what will you do with the word” HOR”? Some one asked you about your omission of word” HOR”, this is your assumed answer to that question.
“
I have not missed the word ‘hor’ in my mental deliberations to understand what Guru Sahib is telling me. It is taken into account in what I have written in 'My understanding' that followed the sentence from Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Though it is not explicit there
.( REALLY !!!!!!)
My mental deliberations on it i.e. the word 'hor', I share with you here.
The word 'hor' literally means more, additional, it also means other.
First I take the word 'hor' to mean 'other’ and discuss it here.
As I understand my Guru Sahibs, they were positive thinkers. They explained to us what 'The Sat' meant to them. They did not indulge in criticising what others have said. Where something was deep rooted among the masses, which was not desirable, they explained it to the masses and persuaded them to move away from those practices or concepts. They recognised pluralities of ways.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/anand-sahib/2216-anand-sahib-24th-pauri.html

Why I have called your answer assumed one because it is imagined. Guru ji does not criticize others who are truthful at all. Let’s see how. Lets us put the Guru Vaak here.
. siqgurU ibnw hor kcI hY bwxI ] satguroo binaa hor kachee hai banee.
While interpreting this Guru Vaak, Amarpal ji, you cannot ignore what Guru ji has said in Pouri 23. Let us see that first.
ਆਵਹੁ ਸਿਖ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਪਿਆਰਿਹੋ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਸਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਬਾਣੀ ਤ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੇਰੀ ਬਾਣੀਆ ਸਿਰਿ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਤਿਨਾ ਸਮਾਣੀ ॥ ਪੀਵਹੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਜਪਿਹੁ ਸਾਰਿਗਪਾਣੀ ॥ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਦਾ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਏਹ ਸਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥੨੩॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=2216
Come ye the beloved disciples of the True Guru and sing the True hymns of the Guru.Sing ye the word of the Guru. which word is the most sublime of all the words.Gurbani enters the mind of those, on whom the Lord casts His merciful glance. Quaff thou Nectar, ever abide in God's love and reflect on God, the Earth-Sustainer. Says Nanak, ever hymn thou, this true word of the Guru.(Tr By Manmohan Singh ji)
Which bani is “ SACHEE”? By whom? Answer is by SatGuru
Kindly note down the words” Baneea sir Bani” ( the most sublime of all said words), EH SACHEE BANI( This true word{ of Guru})
Guru has made clear here who’s Bani is sublime, does Guru criticize others? No, actually Guru ji clarifies in the next Pouri# 24, where you take imaginative fall. Guru ji uses the word” Satguru” instead of just using” Guru” Why? Guru ji doesn’t want the followers should get confused with Bani by others (so called Gurus who lie about Akaal). Where is criticism? Guru ji takes on only those who lie about the” Akaal”, here it is” ਕਹਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਸੁਣਦੇ ਕਚੇ .ਕਚੀ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੀ . False are the utterers, false the hearers, false the reciters and false their authors.( How could you ignore this Guru Vaak?”)
Guru ji does not want his followers to follow those people. Is it a criticism? That is the other reason, Guru ji chooses the word” Satgurtu” for Guru.
Now let’s talk about “Satguru” meaning in Guru’s own words where it is used in context of “Guru”
ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਘਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਇ ਦੇਇ ਸੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ ॥He, who shows the Lord's abode within the man's mind home; He alone is the wise and True Guru.
What Guru ji stressing is very clear. If it is a Bani of “ True Guru” as per Guru ji’s definition, it is” Pakki” but if it is by a guy who calls himself Guru but actually talks false things about “Akaal to grind his own agenda”, it is “ Kachee” That was another reason Guru ji addresses those false ones who mislead others in concept of “Akaal”( ਕਹਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਸੁਣਦੇ ਕਚੇ .ਕਚੀ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੀ . False are the utterers, false the hearers, false the reciters and false their authors.)
Nothing is wrong to contemplate on Guru Shabad and try to decipher meaning but where Guru ji himself clears the meaning, guessing or imagining is very dangerous trend. Guru ji doesn’t criticize any one as you think or understand. Guru ji clearly expresses in Pouri 23 about whom he addresses it. So the Bani of True Guru( Now Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji) is” Pakkee” only” Kachee” can be some one’s understanding and Bani of those who are not able to show” SATT” within and lie about HIM.

With Regards
G Singh